...well, this is just plain stupid. 23 percent tax on consumption. 35 percent tax on income. = comparing apples to oranges. and If you think after all the loopholes, tax right offs, etc, that most pay near this amount you're fooling yourself. and you still didn't quote a source, only an excuse. p.s. thank you MfGimp for an intelligent post, w/great sources
A compromise would work great here. Institute a National Tax rate to cover whatever the hell the government deams worthy and reduce the Income tax accordingly. There's no reason to go entirely to a national tax rate.
You're right Frogleg, your point is stupid. A HIGHER percentage now on ALL money that comes in, and a lower percentage of the money that goes out (which, by definition, is lower than the money coming in over the longterm!) means more money in the current system (thus a deficit at a 23 percent rate.) The loopholes and write offs for individuals do not make up nearly the enormous sums of money that people like to bitch about.
Trust me, NO ONE hates the IRS more than me. While I don't do a lot of tax contraversy work, I've done enough to know the general mindset of the people who work for the IRS. And, the system really is as simple as you want it to be. All you have to do is put down what you earned and look up in a chart to see what you owe. No one is forcing you to take any deductions/credits. Hell, you don't even need to take your personal exemption if you don't want it. The reason the tax code has become so "onerous" is because people want to take deductions for everything and pay as little tax as possible. And, so, it's TAXPAYERS who choose to make it difficult. But, it doesn't have to be. That's simply your choice. But, with programs such as TurboTax, TaxACT, etc., filling out your tax returns has become much more simplified. I've used the free version of TaxACT myself and I recommend it highly. It does a good job of leading you through the tax maze and explains things pretty well even for a tax novice. If you haven't tried it, download a free copy off the internet and give it a try. For the average person, it pretty easy to figure out and it does all the calculations and fills out all the requistes forms strictly based upon the information you provide.
But to truly get the government out of our paychecks, wouldn't they need to change the way they fund Social Security and Medicare? The cost savings of eliminating the income tax won't be realized until the government stops having to track our income. Adding those in there blows away these 15% to 23% numbers. I am still all for it though. But only if it goes all the way!!! Leave it up to the politicians and we will have both taxes in 15 years. Get the government out of our paychecks completely or you will see income taxes come back under a different name...
I laugh when I see interviews where people say, "Oh, I don't have to pay any tax this year -- I'M GETTING A REFUND", or "I really don't mind how much I pay in taxes". I'm a fiscal conservative bordering on libertarian. To me, the federal government has grown ITSELF to proportions that our Founding Fathers would have never dreamed of. WHY? Power! In my perfect world, the government would be streamlined and would be responsible ONLY for certain activities (e.g., National Defense, Interstate Highways, etc.). But, with the money comes the power so, years ago (can you say "New Deal") politicians decided they wanted more power and the way to get more power was to get more money. I've said this for years -- IF YOU REALLY WANT TO SEE FUNDAMENTAL CHANGE IN THIS COUNTRY, suspend the withholding regime for ONE YEAR. Require people to save enough money to cut ONE CHECK at the end of the year to pay all of their taxes (Sales taxes, income taxes, SS taxes, license fees, etc.). When people see what they're really paying (and have to actually write out a CHECK for that amount), and it's not just some "paper figure" that they see on their W-2, you'll see a tax revolt like this country hasn't seen since 1776. I suspect that the withholding regime was "invented" to make sure that this wouldn't happen. The people who are most pissed off about taxes and how much they pay are the self-employed/Schedule C individuals who actually do have to cut a check every quarter.
its hard to argue with illogical people, but here goes. It's not a zero sum game. Taxable income does not equal to Total Consumption. Total Consumption is much higher than Taxable Income. Let me say it again so you can understand. There is a lot more money that is spent on consumption then is defined as taxable income. Next time, i'll try in a See Dick and Jane tone.
right, it is the taxpayers choosing to make it complicated, because they do not want to be overcharged. how silly of them. they should stop jumping through hoops and overcomplicating things and simply fill out the form and pay more than they owe. right, they are only forcing you to pay more if you dont. how polite of them to give you that option.
