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"Moderate islam Does Not Exist"
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  1. There were several huge genocides during WWII. Japanese slaughtered million of chinese over ethnic differences. Germans slaughtered millions of Russians over ethnic reasons, and Germans slaughtered million of Jews based on religious reasons.

    Holocaust deniers are as misguided as truthers.
  2. It's your abrasiveness thats boring, Mr. Zero Reputation. Have you noticed that nobody backs you up here?

    I'll be delighted to respond to your comments as soon as you drop the childish insults and inflammatory rhetoric. Otherwise you can just blow air.
  3. Not trying to be a prick here, will happily concede I may be wrong about this but I have to question some of these numbers. I mean, the way these authors arrive at their estimates are wildly inconsistent. Some examples:


    (The authors is discussing the number of deaths at the hands of a murderous Indian cult, amazingly called "Thugs"....I guess that must be where we get the word....

    Or how about this beauty:

    I mean, what a minute....on the one hand there are 70M Chistian martyrs but in the next breath they say that 32M were at the hand of atheists. You can't count that as a murder due to the perverse nature of religion. Those have to fall under the category of secular murders....were talking about the ones who commit the murder here....not just tallying up the victims.

    Also, 80M Muslims killed. By who? Christians? I find that hard to believe. That would mean that the Christians were successfully killing 10 Muslims for every Christian lost in the middle of admitted Muslim expansion.

    I mean the Christians weren't exactly kicking Muslim ass as far as I can tell from a map. Islam was successful in expanding through almost exclusively Christian territory around the Med. and yet the Muslims got the worst of the fighting?

    I don't know about that. Were the Muslims killed at the hands of heathens like the Mongols or atheists like the Soviets? Maybe I'm just reading it wrong. I'm no expert on this subject but I would have to check those statistics some more before I believe them. Are deaths due to sickness, etc. also included? I'm not even sure the slave trade deaths should be included as against the religious side. Seems to me they were more motivated by financial gain than religion there.

    Lastly, I'm not saying if they had WMD back then they would not have used them, I'm sure they would have.....I just think technologically speaking the numbers must be hard to get to, it's got to take a lot of time to kill several million people with a sword.
  4. Red:

    Man, it's tough to make a point around here! I am not denying the holocaust.

    I am saying it is inaccurate to list WWII in a list of religious conflicts. The conflict was between nations based on blah, blah, blah.

    But NOT religion. THE JEWS HAD NO NATION TO BE ATTACKED. WWII WAS FOUGHT BETWEEN NATIONS.

    The Jews were obviously the victims of genocide. I submit they could have all been ATHEIST JEWS and Hitler would have killed them anyway. It was a RACE based genocide, not religious.
  5. Free speech alley is escaped goat country yankee.
  6. I think you are being disingenuous. It was a world war and world wars have multiple causes, multiple antagonists, and multiple genocides associated with it, obviously. But the Holocaust WAS a religious genocide and it was clearly a part of World War II. This is widely recognized.

    Do I have to list a few million Russian, Polish, Lithuanian, French, Belgian, Dutch, Romanian, Hungarian, Ukrainian, or Latvian Jews that were killed in a huge war by anybody's definition?

    You can submit it, but nobody is buying it because you haven't made a very good case for it. There were an awful lot of blue-eyed, blond German and Austrian Jews murdered too, you know. Lots of these Jews "passed" for Aryan with false papers, but when they were discovered, they went to the camps . . . because of their religion.
  7. My principle objection was WWII being listed in the category of religious wars.

    You want to list the Holocaust in there, fine. Count them a casualties due to religion. I think it was because of race and politics but its a moot point.

    You can't just throw WWII casually in a list of religous wars, though. Besides that he already had the Holocaust included in the list. At the very least that would double counting. We should try to be more accurate than that.
  8. did you even read the post it was attributed to?


    "some part in the deaths of victims" is way different than a "religions war".
  9. yes


    damn, you really have to spell things out around here. I was objecting to the accuracy of listing WWII casualties in that list.

    -Pacific Theater: How many of those deaths do you want to attribute to religion? Zero.

    -Atlantic Theater: How many of those deaths where religion played a part? Zero.

    -Battle of Britain: How many of those....zero.

    -North African Theater: Zero.

    -D-Day: Zero.

    -Eastern Front: Military operations due in large or at least some part to religious reasons and the resulting deaths? Zero.

    -Italian Campaign: Zero.

    Any deaths that took place because of religous reasons in WWII happened in territories that were already under the operation of some sort of government, whether military or state operated. The deaths were ordered based on political demonization of (insert population) by the political leaders. Conversion by the victims was never an issue and would not have resulted in mercy by the officials in charge.

    Religion may have played a part in identifying the political enemies, yes. List those in that category of "Deaths due to religious reasons". Not the military campaigns which are inherently included in the heading WWII.

    Is that clear enough?
  10. False. One can convert to Judaism and become a Jew.

    Which is exactly why I stated the following:
    The WTC towers was not a war, but religion played a large role in the deaths of thousands.
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