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Looks Like Kerry Has Been Lying - I Mean "Misspeaking" - Again

Discussion in 'Free Speech Alley' started by marcmc99, Aug 20, 2004.

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tirk im the lyrical jessie james

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red55 said:

When faced with conflicting intelligence, and there was a lot of it, he should not have acted rashly. He should have taken the time to get the intelligence right. There was no reason to rush to war. The Taliban had been taken down in Afghanistan, Al Qaida finances were being rolled up around the world, and Saddam was hobbled by international sanctions. The military leaders advised against war with Irag, the state department advised against it, our allies advised against it, and the CIA couldn't find any evidence that Iraq was a threat to us.

In this case Bush seems to have selectively ignored the intelligence that did not support his disposition to make war on Saddam. That was neither prudent nor wise.

The first George Bush's decision not to invade Iraq in 1991 seemed like a mistake at the time, but present realities make it clear that he did the right thing. George HW Bush wrote in his 1997 memoir "A World Transformed":

Trying to eliminate Saddam ... would have incurred incalculable human and political costs... . We would have been forced to occupy Baghdad and, in effect, rule Iraq ... there was no viable 'exit strategy'. Had we gone the invasion route, The United States could conceivably still be an occupying power in a bitterly hostile land."

Pity that the son lacks the wisdom and prudence of the father.
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nevermind, I was too late. you couldn't.

tirk, Aug 20, 2004

#21
martin Banned Forever

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i think this is an important speech to read:

even if you ignore all mentions of WMD, i think everything is pretty well justified. this is the speech to the UN justifying the war.

http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2002/09/20020912-1.html

martin, Aug 20, 2004

#22
red55 curmudgeon Staff Member

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tirk said:

red,

you seem an intelligent person who is easily confused with facts. you try to buck the obvious in an effort to be right. you're very ignorant where you should be smarter. it saddens me since i kn thow you're olderan I and have all your faculties yet you only confuse yourself with statistics. I like you yet I pity you even more. Quit spewing information and try thinking the other side for once. It will help you in the long run. Keep it simple....smarty.
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Let me see if I have this right. You disagree with my politics, so I am "ignorant" and "buck the obvious". I "spew information" and I am "confused." I am a "smarty" and you "pity" me.

Tirk, I am far less confused and ignorant than you imagine. You know, when someones comments on a topic consists of only scolding and insults, I realize that they have exhausted their logic and are resorting to rhetoric.

This is a forum for conversation, amigo. Anybody is welcome to add their opinion, if they can summon one up. I don't mind hearing your views but don't lecture me about what to quit doing or try thinking. I speak my mind here but I don't tell other people what they should think and I don't call them names just because I disagree with them. So get off my back.

You seem to think I'm not entitled to an opinion, just because you don't like it. You think I should shut up. What are you afraid of hearing?

You want to offer an opinion on the topic? Please. I'd like to hear it. I usually enjoy your posts, even if I disagree.

You want to give Red a sermon on how he should act? Forget it. I ain't listening and nobody cares.

red55, Aug 20, 2004

#23
tirk im the lyrical jessie james

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actually, I'd love your opinion if it was YOURS. Don't you see your opinion is premanufactured before you actually think? I'd love for you to step back and see the other side for 2 seconds because i know you are way smarter than you even know. I guess it bothers me seeing you spew garbage as if it was the 'right' side. there is sometimes a right and wrong not just 2 different opinions.

tirk, Aug 20, 2004

#24
martin Banned Forever

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red55 said:

You want to give Red a sermon on how he should act? Forget it. I ain't listening and nobody cares.
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you at least have to give the guy credit for referring to himself in the third person. martin is always amused by that.

martin, Aug 20, 2004

#25
tirk im the lyrical jessie james

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martin said:

you at least have to give the guy credit for referring to himself in the third person. martin is always amused by that.
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/tirk is amused as he looks on washingtonpost.com for his rebuttal.

l33t Haxxor

tirk, Aug 20, 2004

#26
ashgeaux Founding Member

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marcmc99 said:

North Korea worries me too. Only thing I can figure out about the troop withdrawal is either we are trusting the Chinese to keep them in check or we are expecting him to do something crazy with a nuke, so we are getting our troops out of harm's way. I don't think we have that much faith in the Chinese, and the second one is almost too frightening to think about, but that is the scenario I am leaning toward.
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I think it's more us trusting the South Koreans. I believe we are there mainly just training them. They are about to have the third largest number of forces in Iraq behind us and the UK, plus their soldiers were trained by ours making them a pretty darn good ally. I think the two plus war ships there or on their way to the Pacific will do more than troops on the ground. If anything were to go wrong with North Korea it would leave the troops stuck with no out.

I know what you mean about Iran, although our good buddy Pakistan is an Islamic power with nuclear weapons already and an unpopular government in shaky control. Osama lives there. I don't trust them one bit.
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If Musarraf or however you spell his name can stay alive or in power I don't think Pakistan will be a problem. Their rounding up of Al Qaeda members has been impressive, especially considering the US relationship with them prior to the War on Terror. They've worked well with the CIA, as well.

ashgeaux, Aug 20, 2004

#27
Sourdoughman TigerFan of LSU and the Tigerman

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I just wanted to remind everyone since you are talking how wrong our intelligence is that the intel we got from Egypt, Britian and anywhere else was also as wrong as ours.
Clinton's intel was wrong also and said they were there but somehow it turned in to
Bush's lie.

I would rather think that this isn't possible, I think the WMD's were or still is there.
It doesn't make any sense that the Iraqi Armies would have gas masks, etc just lying
around during a war if they didn't have WMD's.
I think they could be in Iran and Syria, I also am willing to bet that Osama isn't in Pakistan, he's in Iran.

I don't buy the people against Bush saying he lied, that is a very lame argument.
If that is the best you can come up with then you don't have much of an argument.

Your own candidate said he would still vote for the war in Iraq without the
WMD's so give me a break.

Sourdoughman, Aug 21, 2004

#28
SabanFan The voice of reason

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Saddam was hobbled by international sanctions.
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It's laughable how Bush's detractors conveniently "forget" that Saddam was totally ignoring the sanctions and figuratively giving the United Nations the finger while playing ring around the rosey with the inspectors. The UN was content to continue waving their collective finger in his face and telling him he'd better abide while all the while Saddam lauged in their faces because he knew they'd never back up their threats. That dangerous arrogance, combined with the possibility that he might have stockpiles of WMDs was sufficient justification, in my opinion, to remove his murderous ass from the face of the earth. Remember, this was post 9/11. We were in no mood to tolerate even a perceived threat to our national security. All of the whiners who are crying in their beer about an unjust war have forgotten what it was like in the weeks and months after we were viciously attacked on our own land. I, and other true Americans, will never forget and we will support our president. Let's ensure our safety...then we'll worry about the government cheese. :911:

SabanFan, Aug 21, 2004

#29
Sourdoughman TigerFan of LSU and the Tigerman

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Quote:
Saddam was hobbled by international sanctions.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
He was hobbled alright.

Thats why our troops found all the food and money stored from the UN's oil for food
program in Saddams back pocket.
It sure looked like he had plenty of weapons from France along with money during the
time the sanctions took place.

Yep, right, he was hobbled by international sanctions just like Bush lied.

Sourdoughman, Aug 21, 2004

#30

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