I went to a very conservative, Southern Christian Baptist Church, all my life growing up. When I got to college and to another church, I realized that didnt agree with most of the philosphy in the church I grew up in. You are saying people cant change, I think your point is flawed. People grow up child or adult, you cant predict how something effects a person.
I'm not sure he intends to say people can't change. Both examples of change came much sooner in your lives than Obama's has. He joined this church as an adult and stayed a part of it all of his adult life. He is now leaving it based on negative backlash during a political campaign. I personally don't think he believes a bit of the crap taught there that is racist or any other controversial dogma. I do believe he allowed himself to be linked to this church for credibility in his black community in Chicago. However, what has depressed me most about the whole affair is watching Obama prove to be as expedient as any other politician. Considering his message of change, and doing things differently, he has appeared to act much the same way every other politician does. Somehow it seems a bit more hypocritical to proclaim so loudly that you are different, when in fact, you act very similar. Adding that to a limited track record, and the guy gives me real concern. I understand it could have cost him the election to stay with the church at this point, but I almost would have respected him more had he stayed. His leaving just smacks of expediency. It's a word that is not supposed to fit him.
Is it possible that he has changed? Yes, but highly unlikely that this change took place coincidentally as he was running for president. Plus, even if he did change, it means he believed this stuff for 20 years. The whole thing is scary. This point has already been addressed I would disagree strongly with that. If it is true, it means he does something that he doesn't believe in to gain votes. That's bad as well. At some point the true character comes out and it's one of three things: 1. He was never a member of this church and therefore we have no idea what he stands for. 2. He was and in some ways still is a member of this church but had to cut his ties for political reasons 3. He was a member of this church but learned the error of his ways (while in the middle of a presidential campaign), and is now not a believer in the things preached there. I'm not betting the future of this country on number 3 as I see it as the least likely.
I understand completely. Obama needs to prove to many that he does not personally feel this way. So far he has. I just have some issues with the guilt by association thing. It has been suggested that Obama only dropped his connection with the church because of his entry into national politics. It is equally likely that he joined this church in the first place for political reasons to gain support in the communities he was running in when he entered local politics. Now he has a bigger constituency to be responsible to . . . so he made the change. Oprah had quit Trinity church for the same reason.
Ah, I finally figured out where we disagree. It was maddening basically saying the same thing but not agreeing. Here's my point. I don't feel this is guilt by association. It's not like this guy was doing this stuff that Obama ignored and wasn't a part of. He was in the church listening on Sundays. Obama's guilt comes by having this guy as a spiritual leader, not because he know the guy and trusted him on other things. I have to wonder, if this is the case, why don't you have a problem with this? I understand trying to appeal to certain people, but this is bigger than going to a small town in Indiana and wearing blue jeans and steel toe boots while drinking a beer out of a mug.
Listening is not being a part of something. I've listened politely to damn fools many times. I have close friends with whom I politically disagree. My father was important in my life and we couldn't have been closer, yet we were at political poles. SabanFan is my hero, but his politics are appalling. I think it is completely possible that Obama could have a spiritual and religious mentor whose politics he disagreed with. I'd rather judge him by his own actions and statements than upon fears of what his friends think. Like Okie and Obama, I sat in a denomination for many years for religious reasons just ignoring the political sideshow. At some point it can get in the way of the faith. So people walk. It's politics. What politician doesn't have to become part of a local community in order to represent it? Obama is very new to national politics and his association with Trinity really relates to his state politics. When you represent the South Side of Chicago, going to the biggest church is smart.
Obviously, we'll never agree on this. I never said it was impossible that he saw something different in the church, just highly unlikely. And when a man intertwines politics and religion, it is an issue to have a man like this as your spiritual adviser.
agree....as quickly as possible agree....if it had been a congregation of thousands that believed in flying saucers with little grren people piloting them obama would have belonged to it....as long as the votes were there. just like any other politician even throwing granny under the bus when necessary couldn't agree more seems the scrutiny got a little warm for mr obama. he needs to grow a set. will he melt under the pressure of the oval office? agree. the video of the good priest and the congregation whipped into a frenzy by his racially motivated tirade are causing mr obama problems. not for me. first he would not disavow his pastor's comments then, under pressure he does. seems to be a little too calculating, is he driven by focus groups and polls or is he truly the "pope of hope" ? i think he still (in all probability) would be there had it not been for the now infamous comments by the rev. wright so i don' think it was his entry into national politics that made him leave the church. he's been running for president for over a year now. it was done to save face, make the issue go away and move forward through the minefield.
He disavowed his formers pastor's comments almost immediately and later resigned. What else do you expect him to do? You are still judging Obama by some other person's comments. When Obama starts making such comments then I'll hold him accountable. Look, if you want to distrust Obama for associating with people you find offensive, that's fine. It's just not logical or fair to paint him as a racist simply because he went to church with a man who uses such rhetoric.
