That was weak. You knew I was talking about Northern Ireland, and the British Crown has no right to be there. I won't even dignify that with an argument. I didn't say it was invisible, I said it's not the real issue. And it isn't. Yeah, you can say that, but that doesn't make it true. I doubt Jews would be left alone if they were to leave, but the idea is pointless. The rest of the Middle East will be a parking lot before Israel leaves, so we will never really know. They are welcome to carry their ass. What Britain was allowed to get away with up until just a few short years ago is embarrassing. Rarely did the truth hit the mainstream media, as Britain is our most popular ally in the world. Shedding light on their human rights abuses is unpopular and as a result, was well suppressed. Wrong. I am Episcopal, and would probably be treated with contempt in Northern Ireland. Except, I wasn't.
They have a right to be where their citizens are. Northern Ireland has been a part of the United Kingdom for centuries. Then enlighten us. What are these human rights abuses? I have a long list of Irish terrorism to offer.
Britain made the same argument for all of Ireland at one time. The IRA convinced them otherwise, hence the current Republic of Ireland. Also caused the current reassessment of British policy in Northern Ireland. July 31st, 2007 - [FONT=Arial,Helvetica][SIZE=-1]Operation Banner comes to an end after 38 years, ending the British Army's security support role. Eventually, Britain will be gone altogether. [/SIZE][/FONT]You might want to get current. The abuses of both Protestant led government, police, and private groups(UDA, UFF - never read about them do you?), in addition to the British Army are nearly too numerous to list. They just don't get a lot of play here. Ever hear of "Bloody Sunday"? A popular U2 song, right? What did you think they were singing about? Sounds like modern day democracy, no? This is not the 17th century and Britain had to finally face up to it. Again, the conflict is not about religion. It is about the unlawful and undemocratic occupation of Northern Ireland. Britain has accepted their responsibility and is slowly changing. Why can't you? I'm not further derailing this thread because you chose a statement that is untenable.
The fight itself may not have been about religion, like Iraq, but religion plays a big part, because its how the choose up the sides, like Iraq. There are similarities. Bottom line, and I have seen this stated many times by diplomats, there is no military solution in Iraq, only a negotiated political settlement. That seems right to me. Why aren't we working on it? Hamas has been involved in attacking Israel. Want it to stop? You can try to kill them all (all out war), stay status quo and lose a couple hundred folks a year or worse, or attempt a negotiated political settlement. If you go for the latter, you have to talk to them first.
I completely agree with the first part of this statement. I don't think there is a military solution either. as for working on the political settlement, we are, or at least we were working on that. The problem is, its like herding cats. From my experience, these people are just extremely difficult to deal with. If you look up their cultural values it will tell you that "Honor" is among thier most valued , however they will look you right in the eye and tell you a big ol fatty. I really don't want to get wrapped up in this again but if this is ever going to work it will take generationS to take hold. Just my opinion,
This is perhaps the most implacable problem of them all in solving middle east issues. The Israelis are not much better. They do what they want to and they don't always inform us. They have spied on us, stolen technology, attacked our naval vessels and intercepted our planes. They aren't willing to give an inch either.
The problem with talking to them is that they arent afraid to die for what they call the greater good of their religion and society. Democracy, means nothing to people of Islam, their religion teaches that there isnt a difference between church and state. They govern through religion in these countries for the most part. So they look at you and screw democracy, but are willing to tell you anything and do another.
You rebutted none of my points. Start a thread on how Great Britain should rightfully occupy Northern Ireland and I will be happy to take you to the woodshed. All day long. :grin: Back on Topic: Valid points and pretty accurate. Added to that is the complete poverty and lack of secular education in the region and you have successive generations of little Jihadists just waiting for a cause. As long as education is controlled by radical imams, the cycle is unlikely to be broken. And has anyone mentioned how Carter made out over there? Complete rejection. I still say he should be making commercials in Japan, instead of negotiating with terrorists.
