Well, the jihad is already upon us, I fear. But what exactly will constitute victory in Iraq? We've already beaten their army and occupied the country. In that sense, we have already won. There is not a democracy anywhere in the Arab world and Iraqis clearly don't understand how it works. We could be there for decades, endlessly patrolling, still taking casualties from people who hate us. Dealing with these insurgents is not hard if you have enough troops to do the job, but we have failed to put enough troops there. Securing the highways is a simple military mission, you just have to have enough troops to do it. Entering Fallujah and eliminating the insurgents is a straightforward infantry task, if you have enough boots on the ground supported by all the airpower we can muster. If Vietnam taught us anything at all, it is to either go in with everything you've got and get the job done quickly or don't involve ground troops at all. Panama, Grenada, and Kuwait were smart wars, won quickly with overwheming airpower and a massive ground invasion followed by a prompt withdrawal of troops. Libya and Kosovo were smart wars involving airpower alone, no ground involvement, and won with 2 casualties (Libya) or none at all (Kosovo). Iraq, like Vietnam, Lebanon, and Somalia, is an unwise war where we are occupying a country where they hate us for reasons that are hard to understand. We didn't win any of those wars, nor did we lose them. We just walked away, because it was in our best interests to do so. Sooner or later we will have to leave Iraq, too. We said we were going into Fallujah to kill the insurgents and capture the murderers . . . but we didn't. Instead we have entered into a "dialog" with them, put a former Iraqi General in charge, and keep the tough, but undermanned Marines patrolling while taking casualties. What kind of message does this send the jihadists? If this is the military blueprint for winning this war, I don't think very much of it.
both those paragraphs are right on. THE MOST important part of our foreign policy is that we are seen as the superpower we are. that it is known that fooling with us is suicide. we can never back off, never be weak, never bend under presure from europe. this isnt an issue like gay marriage or estate taxes. the is THE ISSUE. i would never vote for any candidate who wasnt tough on this. no matter where they stood on everything else. this is THE issue. i dunno how many time i am gonna end up saying this, do we need to see 3000 murdered, and more innocent kids decapitated on tape before we are convinced to take a hard line stance? how can kerry have even one voter? i dont understand. we do not "wait for our european allies to get on board"! we protect ourselves right now!
quote by Red55 We said we were going into Fallujah to kill the insurgents and capture the murderers . . . but we didn't. Instead we have entered into a "dialog" with them, put a former Iraqi General in charge, and keep the tough, but undermanned Marines patrolling while taking casualties. What kind of message does this send the jihadists? If this is the military blueprint for winning this war, I don't think very much of it. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------- You are so right on, This poped into my head this morning and I realized this. We have already weakened our resolve and determination by this incident. Do you think the terrorists haven't seen this? We are talking carrrying a big stick but it sure looks like we are unwilling to use it now. Maybe that helped this civilian get killed yesterday and lets not forget Daniel Pearl. I still say its time for a massive bombing of Iran, Iraq and syria, They've already declared war on us by sponsering terrorism and the terrorists have declared war on us years ago and we did nothing then 9/11 happened. We aren't doing what we need to now to win this war so maybe its turning into a Somolia of sorts versus Vietnam. We are now looking weak to our enemies and don't think they aren't laughing there ass off watching the news medias coverage of everything and our politians bicker over this stupid prison scandal.
Thanks to your buddy Clinton! Why such a defeatist attitude? If Americans had your attitude during WWII, they would have retreated from Omaha Beach before the invasion of Europe would have even gotten underway. If it takes decades so be it, because if we leave Iraq with anything less that total victory, we’ll be fighting a war against Islamic Jihadists for decades anyway. I know it’s hard for you to believe, but radical Islam declared war on America. See 9/11 if you don’t believe me. I didn’t realize you were a General with your booths on the ground in Iraq capable of making those calls. That’s the problem with all you liberals, you think you can micromanage everything, even though all you guys do is manage to screw up everything, like Johnson did for the Vietnam war. Why don’t you liberals learn something and let the military do what they get paid and are trained to do? Unless you guys are trying to score some political brownie points, even if it means turning the country against the war in Iraq and abandoning support for our troops. I mean its part and parcel with the seditious Left’s legacy in this country. What? The three-week victory you guys stupidly called a "quagmire" wasn’t fast enough for you? Vietnam taught us that when America goes to war, it must not only be steadfast against the enemy, but also the decrepit and seditious Left. Not only was kicking Saddam out of Kuwait without finishing the job stupid and idiotic, but you can’t compare one war to another war because they are all completely different, with a totally different set of facts and circumstances on the ground. Again, let the Generals do their jobs, that’s what they train and get paid for. I’ve looked back at my history books and I can’t find one instance of the US occupying another country. Now I oft found cases where we liberated populations and rebuilt countries and a whole continent in one case, but no cases where we actually imperialistically occupied another country. As for as the Vietnam War goes, North Vietnam exploited and used democracy’s biggest weakness against us, which was inciting the Left and turning them into a treasonous fifth column that sabotaged the war from the inside. Vietnam will always be remembered as one of the most shameful and disgraceful periods in our history. With respect to Lebanon, we should never have attempted to get involved over there because our focus during that period of time was mainly in stopping the spread of communism and containing the Soviets. However, once we made the commitment, in retrospect our retreat was a big mistake. You can blame the career delusional Leftists that have infiltrated our State Department for the past 56 years for that one. Indeed, Alexander Haig, who was Secretary of State during that time, rightfully resigned over the decision to retreat. Again, the retreat from Somalia in 1993 was one of the biggest blunders of the Clinton administration. It was the main screw up that convinced OBL that America was weak and could be defeated through asymmetrical and psychological warfare. Now, you’re being utterly absurd, lack of forces or firepower had nothing to do with any thing in Fullujah. Indeed, the AC130 gunships were slaughtering the insurgents. You got to understand that the State Department is rat infested with career delusional Leftists and Arabists, like our colleges and universities, who were against the war in the first place and, unfortunately, they control the CPA. The orders to put an Iraqi General in charge came down from State and the CPA. We’ll have to watch what happens in Fallujah, but I believe that we’ll eventually end up going back and taking care of business there, and when we do it will be even bloodier than if we would have taken care of business the first time. I do hope I’m wrong. In any event, the word is the State Department is finally being restructure in preparation for Bush’s second term. Praise the lord! Reality is we can’t afford to pullout of Iraq without anything less than a complete and total victory because whether you like it or not we are at war with the forces of radical Islam, and if we pull out with anything less, it will mean much greater terrorism and a hell of a lot more war. In fact, to win this war on terror, the governments of Iran, Syria, and possibly Saudi Arabia will have to be removed or seriously reformed.
Show me one post where I've even mentioned Clinton. He ain't my buddy and he ain't the topic here. Quit changing the subject. What you call a defeatest attitude, I call pragmatism, look it up. Why don't you answer my question? This diatribe against liberals has nothing to do with the topic. BTW, I'm not a liberal, chief. I'm a moderate. To the left of you to be sure, but my politics are centrist. I voted for your boy Bush in the last election, a mistake I won't repeat. I let the generals run the war, I just wish this admnistration would! However, I am capable of abstract thought and I do have an opinion on the subject. If you don't agree, that is fine. But don't make up issues. I never said anything about not supporting the troops. It is the political apparatus driving the war that I'm abandoning. Your smokescreen is transparent. The question is simple: What exactly constitutes victory in this war? No more flag-waving and insulting anyone who happens to disagree with you. We are not distracted by this. Just answer the damn question. You didn't look very hard. Try Mexico 1847, CSA 1865-69, Cuba 1898, The Phillipines 1898-1948, Japan 1945-1954, and West Germany 1945-1950. More recently try Grenada and Panama. Currently US troops occupy Haiti, Afghanistan, and Iraq. We still have troops in Cuba, The Philipines, Japan, Germany, and Korea. I don't want to have troops in Iraq for 50 years. That ain't the way I remember it, hoss. How old are you? Twenty, twenty-one? You have some strange notions. Uh, . . . Lebanon was a Ronald Reagan operation from start to finish. A Republican conservative administration made the decisions. Now, you are trying to rewrite history. Tell me about these delusional leftists again. What? Hillary did it? Of course! Naw, it wasn't the administration that is in charge of the government, it was the delusional leftists! All of the paranoids are out to get you, Turbo. Are you actually saying that to achieve victory in the Iraq war, we must also defeat three more countries? I don't think so, Skippy. Again, describe for us this "complete and total victory" you envision. I wonder about it because I've already seen Joint Chief of Staff Chairman General Richard B. Myers state, under oath, "There is no way to militarily lose in Iraq. There is also no way to militarily win in Iraq." Conservative columnist George Will was on TV last Sunday and said that the military's backing off of Falujah was the beginning of the American withdrawal from Iraq. Will clearly thinks US war policy in Iraq is a shambles. Those dammned delusional leftists.
when discussing what countries "occupy" other countries, only the most worthless type of person would mention we have troops in places like japan or germany. WE DID THE OPPOSITE OF OCCUPY THOSE COUNTRIES. we turned them from evil murdering countries into friendly self-governing countries at our expense. the fact is the US is the most honorable country there ever was, and if we invade you, you can consider yourself damn lucky. never before has their been a single superpower balance of power, when that one power was as peaceful as the united states. we do not conquer, we do not occupy. we kill bad guys and give people their countries back when we are done. if i was cuban i would pray every day that US troops would invade, because i would know damn well that america would let the cuban people decide what to do after we were freed from castro, and we could go on to be relatively rich like japan. it infuriates me when anyone tries to cast us as imperialistic. there has never been a liberator like us.
To be honest with you I'm kinda sad we didn't keep France for ourselves after WWII. :dis: The United States of France sure sounds good to me. :cry: At least then, France would be working with us instead of against us!
Praise God, Finally some one who speaks the truth I said that 2 weeks ago, let's take care of our own. Provide jobs here in our own country, screw the international welfare we provide to other countries. Our elderly can't afford their medication, but we have the money to support other countries. We are loosing jobs, left and right in the states. I'm all for corparations turning profits, but here in Illinois Maytag increased profits 300% in one year. And then decided to move the plant from Galesburg, Illinois to Mexico. Close to 2000 people will loose their job by Jan. 2005. Let's just bomb everyone, but start with Mexico, India, China, and every other country taking all our jobs. God Bless America, and may Americans be Blessed. I watched the video of that poor man getting his head hacked off, it's terrible. But, let's not make light of what went on at the prison. I truely believe this whole war will come back to bite us on the ass.
Maybe he ain’t your buddy, but Clinton is a liberal just like you are and no matter how much you deny it, it was his feckless foreign power during his 8 years in office that is more than anything else responsible for the war on terrorism we are forced to fight today. Putting your tail between your legs and fleeing like a scared dog can never be defined as pragmatism when it comes to facing terrorism and radical Islam. Only stupidity! Why did you ask it again? I don’t like repeating myself. You want your answer, reread my first post. Sure and I'm the fairy god mother! Please, don’t humor yourself and make the rest of us laugh anymore, you’re as Leftwing as they come comrade! Look, even your nickname is Red! Transparent? About as transparent as the political ploy that the Left keeps trying to implicate by redundantly claming that there is not enough troops in Iraq, despite the fact the President and the Secretary of Defense repeatedly ask the top Generals in Iraq if they need any more troops or resources. Sure, if the Left can manage to create doubt in the public’s minds and mistrust in the President and the administration during war, the public will drop support for the war and the troops. It’s exactly what the Left, after being so easily manipulated by the North Vietnamese, managed to pull off during the Vietnam War! Read General Giap’s book! He admits the North Vietnamese could never have won the war without the willing cooperation of the Left in this country. Reality is the Left in this country are always "useful idiots" and somehow always manage to become manipulated to seditiously aid and comfort our enemies during times of war. I believe it stems from their subconscious self-hatred. Why else would you say there aren’t enough troops in Iraq! Come on! Unless you want to willingly admit you are a clueless "useful idiot". Again, quit being pretentious, I don’t like repeating myself. Go back and reread my first post! Only a self-hating anti-America delusional Leftist could possibly misinterpret America’s history so deliberately! America doesn’t have an imperialist bone in it’s body, it has always conquered evil and then rebuilt the countries it conquered before turning them back over to its people better than it was before. There isn’t a country in this world that has done more to foster democracy in the name of peace than the USA! Sure! That’s because you were too busy being a "useful idiot". I’m not rewriting anything, but you are proving you no absolutely nothing about the inner workings and politics that go on inside government and very little about history too. I don’t deny that Ronald Reagan is ultimately responsible because he was after all the President, but it was the leftist elements inside the State Department and other departments of government that worked behind the scenes and their own Secretary’s back that ultimately held sway in that decision, and, indeed, it was the primary reason that Secretary of State Alexander Haig tendered his resignation. There have been many books that have been written on the subject, the latest good one written by Joel Mowbray. I suggest you pick one of them up and read it one day. You might learn a little something! Perhaps you should reread exactly what it is I said, which is to win the war on terror, not in Iraq, that we will have to remove the governments of Syria, Iran, and possibly Saudi Arabia, or seriously influence those country’s governments to reform. Anything less will simply condemn us and the entire world to war in perpetuity. Indeed, every government in the Middle East must be reformed and the people given basic fundamental human rights and their freedom, or the dictators who rule them will continue to brainwash them into hating the West, America, and Israel. Again, go and reread my first post, Skippy. Regarding General Myers’ statement, of course, because ultimately it comes down to politics and the creation of a pluralistic democracy in Iraq that will be the first step in fostering freedom throughout the Middle East. Mr. Will is obviously all to well aware of the career delusional Leftists and Arabists that have been in control of the State Department for way too many years and that have had a big hand in every foreign policy blunder that undercut American interests in the past. He is simply, in his very nondescript and discreet way, trying to sound the alarm of here we go again. Very fortunately it has recently come to light that finally after 56 long years, the Vice President and Condi Rice are in the process of quietly restructuring the State Department, beginning with the Department for Near East Policy. We will all have to stand by on the sidelines and hope they are successful in this endeavor.
