Isla Vista killing....the NRA's fault?

Discussion in 'Free Speech Alley' started by uscvball, May 29, 2014.

  1. MLUTiger

    MLUTiger Secular Humanist

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    Yes, but you're less likely to do so. That's not an opinion. That's a quantifiable, unemotional fact.

    It's crazy people with guns that kill a lot of people. A crazy person with rocks or knives will kill less people. Guns simply make the task far too easy and automatic guns make it efficient. It's takes guts to kill someone with a knife.

    Also, I'm sure if we sat and made a list we would find that plenty of sane people have killed other people. The act of killing someone doesn't automatically make someone crazy. Mental illness is a separate issue as evidenced by the fact that not every crazy person with access to guns is killing people. There are more holes in that argument than a screen door factory.
     
    red55 likes this.
  2. uscvball

    uscvball Founding Member

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    It's a challenge that I don't know if an answer exists. I feel for parents with a kid struggling with severe mental illness. Like you said, once they are 18, you can't force meds. The police are limited. A 72 hour hold only delays the issue for 72 hours. When the person is potentially violent, there are few options. At some point, people should stop saying "I never thought" and move to "maybe he would".

    I love the freedom of charter schools and the independence that is built into daily lessons and activities. There are days when my kid's come home, we talk about their day, and I have to "undo" what they were told. And no, you don't want to know or have our name behind certain activity. We don't need to know everything.
     
  3. uscvball

    uscvball Founding Member

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    No.

    It's covert killing...what kind of evidence do you want? Lol.

    You won't get examples from me. I believe because....I have good reason to.

    Right. Can those folks make $500k for a few month's work?

    For me, I have all the evidence I need. My convictions on this point are immoveable.
     
  4. red55

    red55 curmudgeon Staff Member

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    Whatever it is that makes you think this way, of course. If you are just guessing, then say so.

    You could tell me, but then you'd have to kill me. Right, 008?

    No but their work is real and can be corroborated. I am sure Jim Phelps would be worth 500K, if Mission Impossible was not fiction.

    As is your substantiation, sadly. I must remain unconvinced.
     
  5. uscvball

    uscvball Founding Member

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    No, I'm not guessing. The truth can make people uncomfortable. I get that.

    I am not trying to convince you or anybody. When does that EVER happen on the internet? Do you honestly believe that everything the CIA does can be corroborated? Or that if it can't be, that it doesn't really occur?

    http://www.theonion.com/articles/suicide-bomber-killed-en-route-by-car-bomb,2/

    And no, the Bin Laden mole wasn't killed by Al Qaeda.....at least not without help.
     
  6. Bengal B

    Bengal B Founding Member

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    how do you know it "takes more guts to kill someone with a knife"? These wackos know they are going to die. How do these things usually end? If the police don't kill the perp then they usually end up killing themselves.

    As far as the argument being full of holes, its the logic of you and you left wing gun grabbing cohorts like Nancy Pelosi and Charles Shumer that is holier than a stadium full of saints. Lets just pretend that you get your wish and guns are made illegal. No pistols, no rifles, no shotguns. Not even a BB gun would be legal to possess. Don't you think that criminals would still have guns? And while I try to be law abiding I wouldn't turn if my guns. I would have to less open about having them but I would have them. I doubt that even somebody like Red, who straddles the fence on this subject would turn in his guns. Not sure about LaSalle. He would probably keep his and be open about it at least on internet forums where he thinks he is anonymous.

    Case in point: A few years ago a man living in Florida legally purchased a .38 Special revolver. A few years later he moved to New York, where the gun laws are a lot more restrictive. Being the law abiding citizen that he was he applied for a permit to own the gun that he already owned. Because he had no criminal record its probable that in time and after much delay he would have been granted the permit. During the time he was waiting for the permit a bad guy broke into the man's house and was terrorizing the man's family. As the bad guy was making motions of stabbing the man's six year old son with a butcher knife the man shot the punk and killed him.

    The rest of the story: That should have been the end of it but being that it was in New York the man was arrested and charged with murder. For killing an invader in his own home. I don't know how it turned out but we can only pray that common sense prevailed. Anyway don't you think its a good thing he had a gun even though it was illegal at the time? Because the had the gun the man was able to defend his family and save the life of his son.
     
  7. red55

    red55 curmudgeon Staff Member

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    Who is uncomfortable? I'm just asking why I should consider your opinion to be "truth". I can see no corroboration is forthcoming, so I'll drop it.

    No, but neither do I believe every story I hear about them, because there is so much BS out there. Much of what the CIA does can be easily corroborated. And I made clear earlier that spies hire civilians to be informants, saboteurs, and possibly assassins. They always have done so. But I think that your suggestion that private military forces are secretly doing the jobs of our SPEC-OPS soldiers who are incapable and afraid is without substance.

    You do realize that "The Onion" is a spoof news site? I begin to understand why your imagination is so good.
     
  8. red55

    red55 curmudgeon Staff Member

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    It is widely known. Not every person who can easily shoot somebody at a distance has the constitution to cut somebody up close. Do you think the nut job that shot all those 1st graders with an assault rifle, would have had the stuff to butcher them one at a time with a knife? It strains credulity.

    Just look at history. For thousands of years battles and armies were small and composed of professional soldiers because not every man had the balls to stand at arms length from an enemy and slice each other with swords and spears. It was not until the advent of the musket that they could pull farm hands out of the fields and train them to be an effective soldier killing at a distance.

    This is a bullshit argument because no one except a few extremists are lobbying for this. Not Obama, not Pelosi, not MLUTiger. This is never going to happen in America and you know it. You and your knee-jerk right-wing friends in the NRA whip up this fake hysteria to divert attention from common-sense measures to control gun violence and gun crimes.

    The middle is not a fence, it's a broad highway where most of America stands. Extremists on both sides are driving in the ditches. There are an awful lot of people driving in the right ditch.

    How convenient. I searched for this story and could not find it. What I did find in dozens of cases is that New York has a "Castle Doctrine" in which you may legally protect yourself from armed intruders in your house. People in such cases have not been charged. People have been charged with Manslaughter if they killed an unarmed intruder. And people have been charged with possession of an illegal handgun if it is not registered because that is the law in New York. But they don't get charged with murder for it.
     
  9. uscvball

    uscvball Founding Member

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    It has been my experience that some folks, even when presented with truth, will still not believe. You are neither required nor implored to accept my opinion. S'okay with me.

    Really.....do tell. And how can you corroborate what you don't know and what isn't reported? Our government is expert at purposeful misinformation.

    Spies? The CIA does all those things and uses PMC's as well. There is no possible about it.

    Incapable and afraid is not quite the right wording. I am however talking about the 1% of the 1%. There are very few people capable of doing what they do and who are willing to do it. It carries a price. Being declared a rogue warrior without any support from the government that sent you is a daunting proposition. It's unlikely that your guard will ever let down the rest of your life.

    I figured the googlemaster would realize that. You can easily find headlines about the removal of targets and from legit news sources but I suspect you won't believe them anyway.
     
  10. red55

    red55 curmudgeon Staff Member

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    I accept your opinions no problem, but I don't automatically elevate them to facts. It's why I ask for your sources.

    Well, I don't invent things based on what I don't know. If I am speculating, I say so.

    Here we go again . . . your vehement distrust of "government" clouds your logic, I think.

    You keep telling me that I can't know these things. But you do, of course.

    Yes, I like Burn Notice, too.

    Well, I don't attribute them all to the CIA and their secret mercenary army. There is so much disinformation in the media that one cannot blindly trust any of it.
     

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