Log in or Sign up

Is There a ‘Right’ to Health Care?

Discussion in 'Free Speech Alley' started by tirk, Jul 29, 2009.

Page 3 of 18

saltyone So Mote It Be

Joined:

Dec 21, 2004

Messages:

7,647

Likes Received:

483

"Yawn"

Believe what you like houtiger. There are sources for my numbers...plenty. I'll google them and post them for you later.

I'll tell you what the problem is. Too many people in this damn country lack anything close to common sense. Too many people in this country cast votes without any knowledge of who or what they are casting a vote for. Too many people in this country have forgotten, or never knew, what this country was founded for and why. Too many freaking people in this country believe they have a "Right" to everything while at the same time refusing to contribute to anything.

If you are foolish enough to believe that socialized medicine is in our country's best interest then there is little I can say to change your mind. All I want is to talk with you ten years from now so I can say I told you so.

A quick search just for you houtiger:

The Census Bureau doesn’t tell us that 45.7 million people are chronically uninsured for the entire year. The agency has stated elsewhere that “the CPS estimate of the number of people without health insurance more closely approximates the number of people who are uninsured at a specific point in time during the year than the number of people uninsured for the entire year.“

In other words, many of the survey respondents counted as “uninsured” may have experienced only a temporary interruption in their insurance. This circumstance is quite common. When workers quit or lose their job, they are technically uninsured. But they are usually in transition between one employer-provided insurance policy and another.

Despite the media’s tendency to depict the 45.7 million uninsured as a single, homogeneous group, the demographic character of these individuals cuts across age, ethnic, and socioeconomic categories. Many are uninsured for reasons unrelated to cost and don’t need to be “rescued” by mandatory socialized medicine.

We may be accustomed to thinking of the uninsured as low-income individuals and struggling families. But the Census Bureau data show that many are relatively affluent. Over 17.5 million—38 percent—of the uninsured make more than $50,000 a year. And 9.1 million have an annual income of over $75,000 a year.

How can this be? In part, it’s because a number of financially comfortable young Americans choose not to purchase health insurance. Known in the healthcare trade as the “invincibles”—because they’re so sure they won’t get sick—these young singles would rather keep their money than shell out for expensive monthly insurance premiums because of the many mandates and regulations place on insurers by the states.

This intentional avoidance of health insurance is quite common. According to the Commonwealth Fund, Americans age 19-29 comprise one of the largest and fastest-growing segments of the uninsured population.

If the fact that over a third of the uninsured are pulling down more than $50,000 a year isn’t shocking enough, how about this: Nearly 10 million uninsured aren’t even U.S. citizens!

It’s certainly unfortunate that these individuals don’t have health insurance, of course. But they can still get free treatment in emergency rooms. And even a fully nationalized healthcare system would be unlikely to provide them with health insurance.

Another 14 million of the uninsured are fully eligible for government assistance through programs like Medicare, Medicaid, and SCHIP.

How does that break down? A 2008 study by the Georgetown University Health Policy Institute showed that a whopping 70 percent of uninsured children are eligible for Medicaid, SCHIP, or both programs. And roughly 27 percent of non-elderly Americans who are eligible for Medicaid haven’t enrolled and simply live their lives without health insurance, according to the Urban Institute.
Click to expand...

America’s 6 million to 8 million uninsured need help with health care bills | BusinessWord.com

And another fine example:

Let us break down the infamous '47 million uninsured.' According to the Census Bureau, of that 47 million, 38 percent of them (18 million) have personal incomes of more than $50,000 a year. This means that they can afford coverage, and choose not to purchase it. Is it just to tax other working people to subsidize health coverage for these 18 million who could afford it for themselves but choose not to purchase it for themselves? Anybody with half a brain towards liberty would have to answer no to the above question.

Now that leaves us with 29 million uninsured left to explain.

Of that 29 million uninsured, the biggest chunk of them aren't even citizens. Yes, you guessed it, those pesky illegal immigrants that drive up the cost of everything. It seems that our uninsured problem is directly related to the lack of border security! Of course they wouldn't be able to be covered by private health insurers because they do not possess citizenship! Their number is about 12.6 million, or 27 percent of the original '47 million uninsured' number. This could be a higher percentage, because many prominent think tanks place the number of illegal immigrants as high as 20 million, instead of the 12 or 13 million figure. However, for the sake of argument, let us go with the most conservative figure.

Subtract the 12.6 number from the remaining 29 million uninsured number, and we come to the next stage of our breakdown, 16.4 million uninsured.

Of that remaining 16.4 million uninsured, 8 million are under the age of 18. If the parents of these young ones cannot afford to cover them either on their own family plans or independently, there are public insurance options already available for them but their parents have just not signed them up.

So that leaves us with 8.4 million uninsured, a figure less than 3 percent of the American population, and many of these are 18-20 somethings who choose not to purchase health coverage because, well, they think that they won't get sick! Health experts actually refer to this age group as the 'invincibles!' The remainder of this 8.4 million uninsured are low income and could easily be covered by either federal Medicare or state run Medicaid or some charity insurance programs, and they for whatever reason have chosen not to go and get signed up.
Click to expand...

Debunking the 47 Million Myth - MyFoxmemphis Community Blog post

Have a good night.

saltyone, Jul 30, 2009

#21

2 people like this.
DRC TigerNator

Joined:

Oct 11, 2003

Messages:

4,745

Likes Received:

374

Oh my phucking gawd. You are witnessing right here the limousine liberal seeds of socialism.

I work for a big company but I'm and independent contractor, ie: 100% commission. My wife is in a 100% commission job. We get no healthcare paid for by our employer. I pay almost $1000 per month for a fantastic plan. Would I love to pay less? Of course, but I am not willing to pay less for crappy care nor do I want to subsidize illegals and government leaches who systematically suck the government teet.

There is no god given right to health care. You pay for it and we damn sure have great care here, albeit expensive, but great nonetheless.

Contrary to the bleeding heart liberals, health care is available to people in this country. They would have you believe it isn't but that's complete BS. You can go out today and buy an individual major medical plan from BCBS for $200 per month with a $40 copay and $1500 deductible. Thats affordable. I could make more than that in a month delivering pizza's at night. Those that suck the government teet would never consider the possibility of delivering pizza's at night and Im not willing to sacrifice for them, not one phucking penny.

DRC, Jul 30, 2009

#22
Tigerbnd05 National Champs 2003 2007

Joined:

Aug 5, 2003

Messages:

1,231

Likes Received:

69

Plain in simple, I looked, nowhere does it say or is it implied we have a right to have healthcare or have it provided for us if we can't afford it. So my answer is no.

Tigerbnd05, Jul 30, 2009

#23
LSUMASTERMIND Founding Member

Joined:

Nov 15, 2007

Messages:

12,992

Likes Received:

2,461

Yes people should have a right to healthcare.

LSUMASTERMIND, Jul 30, 2009

#24
houtiger Founding Member

Joined:

Jun 8, 2003

Messages:

4,287

Likes Received:

390

Here's why reform is necessary, and this was Bush's Comptroller of Currency in 2007:

"I would argue that the most serious threat to the United States is not someone hiding in a cave in Afghanistan or Pakistan but our own fiscal irresponsibility," Walker tells Kroft.

David Walker is a prudent man and a highly respected public official. As comptroller general of the United States he runs he Government Accountability Office, the GAO, which audits the government's books and serves as the investigative arm of the U.S. Congress.

<snip>

He calls it a fiscal wake up tour, and he is telling civic groups, university forums and newspaper editorial boards that the U.S. has spent, promised, and borrowed itself into such a deep hole it will be unable to climb out if it doesn’t act now. As Walker sees it, the survival of the republic is at stake.

<snip>

"The fact is, is that we don't face an immediate crisis. And, so people say, 'What's the problem?' The answer is, we suffer from a fiscal cancer. It is growing within us. And if we do not treat it, it could have catastrophic consequences for our country," Walker replies.

The cancer, Walker says, are massive entitlement programs we can no longer afford, exacerbated by a demographic glitch that began more than 60 years ago, a dramatic spike in the fertility rate called the "baby boom."

Beginning next year, and for 20 years thereafter, 78 million Americans will become pensioners and medical dependents of the U.S. taxpayer.

"The first baby boomer will reach 62 and be eligible for early retirement of Social Security January 1, 2008. They'll be eligible for Medicare just three years later. And when those boomers start retiring in mass, then that will be a tsunami of spending that could swamp our ship of state if we don't get serious," Walker explains.

<snip>

What would happen in 2040 if nothing changes?

"If nothing changes, the federal government's not gonna be able to do much more than pay interest on the mounting debt and some entitlement benefits. It won't have money left for anything else – national defense, homeland security, education, you name it," Walker warns.

<snip>

Part of the problem, Walker acknowledges, is that there won't be enough wage earners to support the benefits of the baby boomers. "But the real problem, Steve, is health care costs. Our health care problem is much more significant than Social Security," he says.

Asked what he means by that, Walker tells Kroft, "By that I mean that the Medicare problem is five times greater than the Social Security problem."

The problem with Medicare, Walker says, is people keep living longer, and medical costs keep rising at twice the rate of inflation. But instead of dealing with the problem, he says, the president and the Congress made things much worse in Dec. 2003, when they expanded the Medicare program to include prescription drug coverage.

"The prescription drug bill was probably the most fiscally irresponsible piece of legislation since the 1960s," Walker argues.

Asked why, Walker says, "Well, because we promise way more than we can afford to keep. Eight trillion dollars added to what was already a 15 to $20 trillion under-funding. We're not being realistic. We can't afford the promises we've already made, much less to be able, piling on top of 'em."

With one stroke of the pen, Walker says, the federal government increased existing Medicare obligations nearly 40 percent over the next 75 years.

<snip>

He is not suggesting that the nation do away with Medicare or prescription drug benefits. He does believe the current health care system is way too expensive, and overrated.

"On cost we're number one in the world. We spend 50 percent more of our economy on health care than any nation on earth," he says.

"We have the largest uninsured population of any major industrialized nation. We have above average infant mortality, below average life expectancy, and much higher than average medical error rates for an industrialized nation," Walker points out.

Walker says we have promised almost unlimited healthcare to senior citizens who never see the bills, and the government already is borrowing money to pay them. He says the system is unsustainable.

"It's the number one fiscal challenge for the federal government, it's the number one fiscal challenge for state governments and it's the number one competitive challenge for American business. We're gonna have to dramatically and fundamentally reform our health care system in installments over the next 20 years," Walker tells Kroft.

And if we don't?

"And if we don't, it could bankrupt America," Walker argues.
Click to expand...

U.S. Heading For Financial Trouble? - 60 Minutes - CBS News

We have a health care system we can't afford, it will break the nation. We sit here and do nothing, the dollar won't be worth squat. Most of the uninsured get some coverage and we pay for it anyhow. Its in our insurance rates the companies pay or we pay privately. When we wait for them to be so sick they go to an emergency room, its the most expensive treatment in the world and that ends up costing us more.

We can reduce the benefits to the wealthy and well insured and medicare and medicaid in an organized fashion, or we can bankrupt the nation. Or we can try to keep the coverage we have for the well insured and kick more poor folks out the bottom and just let them die faster.

We have to get much more efficient, or ration the expensive services we have so we deliver less of the services. Just letting poor folks die is not a good solution.

houtiger, Jul 30, 2009

#25
houtiger Founding Member

Joined:

Jun 8, 2003

Messages:

4,287

Likes Received:

390

Tigerbnd05 said: ↑

Plain in simple, I looked, nowhere does it say or is it implied we have a right to have healthcare or have it provided for us if we can't afford it. So my answer is no.
Click to expand...

I don't think you can find anywhere we have a right to a 12 year education, but we do it for everyone. It's the right thing to do in education, and its the right thing to do in healthcare. I don't think you have to provide the best care possible to everyone, but I think you need to provide sound reasonable care.

houtiger, Jul 30, 2009

#26
LSUGradin99 I Bleedeth Purple 'N Gold

Joined:

Nov 17, 2003

Messages:

15,579

Likes Received:

475

I would say there is a right to affordable health care. From someone with parents who can't afford health insurance due to major illnesses (cancer & strokes), I can tell you that even the hard working people like many of us have a potential to end up without sufficient health care. It's in the range of $2500 - $3000 a month for the two of them and we have all tried to find a plan for them.

LSUGradin99, Jul 30, 2009

#27
LaSalleAve when in doubt, mumble

Joined:

Jun 8, 2008

Messages:

44,037

Likes Received:

18,027

saltyone said: ↑

That "joke" is still the best damn healthcare system on the planet. Is it perfect? No. But it's still the best.
Click to expand...

of course it is, if you work for a company that provides it for you, or you are rich.

LaSalleAve, Jul 30, 2009

#28
mobius481 Registered Member

Joined:

Jan 20, 2006

Messages:

7,731

Likes Received:

1,350

lsu-i-like said: ↑

What bugs me is that doctors charge a ridiculous amount for general procedures, and I bet a large amount of that is coming from my taxes, though perhaps indirectly. Most of us don't shop around for the best healthcare deal, and there aren't that many choices for most of us. As it stands now, our healthcare system is a joke and doctors are riding that pony to the bank.
Click to expand...

Do you want to know why Doctors charge exorbitant amounts for general procedures? Because many are forced to take on patients with government sponsored payment plans and those plans do not even cover the cost of the procedure. So now, we put more people on government sponsored payment plans and my costs, as a privately insured, are supposed to go down?

That's brilliant.

mobius481, Jul 30, 2009

#29
Rex_B Geaux Time

Joined:

Nov 1, 2003

Messages:

3,926

Likes Received:

187

This thread is laughable at best. HealthCare is not a right. Yes I have a right to eat a peice of **** if I want but that doesn't make it a Right by the Govt.

And I'll say this again. If you think insurance is suppose to be a pre-paid service plan then YOU WILL have to pay for it. Go read the definition of insurance and then tell me can you afford it, YES.

I'm also tired of people clammering - OH what about the children. Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah.

Personal responsibility of ones self has left the building in this country and most people whine to their death about what the govt didn't do for them. STFU and go be a productive citizen. If you want it, go get it.

Rex_B, Jul 30, 2009

#30

1 person likes this.

(You must log in or sign up to reply here.)

Page 3 of 18

Share This Page