Intelligent Design can not be taught in Pa. schools

Red, take a step back for a second and try to see this from our perspective. Schools are now teaching that evolution is the only option. We can go back and forth all day about the language being used. A proven theory, in my eyes, has no flaws. Stands up to test. And most importantly, makes some kind of sense.

Darwinism cannot be "proven", is little more than a wild ass guess and in my eyes, it is the equivalent to people once saying that the earth was flat. It's just that stupid. The only problem is that we were able to prove that the earth wasn't flat. There is no "scientific proof" as you say. There are just a bunch of "hypothesis" that people are saying are true. The judge even stated that there was no way to prove evolution is the correct theory. He just states that it is the most recognized.

We believe that evolution was embraced because it finally, after years of trying, gave the unbelievers something to hang their hat on. We are not happy that this "theory" has become accepted as understood fact. That is why we want to attack it head on in the science class room. Not burried in an elective class where only a small handful will recieve it. We want darwinism at least called what it really is. An unproven, untested, unverifiable guess. We also want the idea that there could have been a higher power involved included. It is unjust to show one view point. It is unjust to try and say that viewpoint is the only way it could be.

Any religion is based in faith. There is no way we can "scientifically" prove that there was a higher power involved in creating the earth. Since there is no way to prove your "theory" what makes it better than ours? Just because some scientist say so? That's pretty narrow minded red. You are putting your faith in a lot of people that stand to gain from doing away with religion.

When men start turning from God, putting their faith in men, and believing that they are all knowing, we are truly damned.

 

salty, lets look at it this way.

lets say your kid and mine are on a soccer team together. and you and i are friends and we like to enjoy a couple cold ones together on the sidelines while we watch our kids play. but you know my stance on religion, i dont want to teach my kids to be christians. and we have another guy we both are friends with who is muslim and his kid is on the team. do you really weant to sanction pregame jesus prayers for the team that our kids are on, knowing it isnt your place to put ideas n my kids head? cant we co-exist and keep our faiths to ourselves?

i'm not forcing my view on you by just asking that you keep your faiths in your house and church and family. all i am asking is that we keep certain places free from any faith influences and let them be places of learning math or science or lit or soccer. is that so bad? i dont favor taking your kid and shaking him until he hates jesus. i just want indoctrination free zones.

 

There is truth in what you say martin. And for those very reasons, I supported the moment of silence before sporting events. I am very well traveled and can appreciate that there are many different views besides mine. I respect those views as long as they do not threaten my own. In such a situation, a moment of silence in place of the traditional prayer is fine. No one is forced to listen to something that goes against their personal beliefs and nobody's beliefs are being sacrificed. No harm, no foul, everybody is happy.

What I do have a problem with is ideas like evolution. It's very excistence goes against what I believe. It completely undermines my faith and replaces it with something else. Just like you wouldn't want your kid being taught about Jesus, I don't want my kid being taught that the Bible is a lie. If evolution was taken out of text books, or if ID was inserted to offset the one sided view I'd be fine. If evolution was completely removed, I wouldn't want ID or some other idea put in it's place. This line of thinking is why I often say that darwinism has almost become a religion.

You follow me?

 

yeah i follow you. your interpretation of the bible as god's literal truth really throws a wrench in the works when dealing with science. it is pretty difficult to make your ideas work together with reality (no offense meant, although i know that sounds terrible).

i cant think of a solution offhand that doesnt teach kids that the bible is lies. of course i believe the bible is lies, which makes it hard for me to figure out a solution that is mutually agreeable.

 

And there ladies and gentlemen is the crux of the debate. I like to think we Christians are taking the high road here. We are willing to compromise when our opposition is not. They want total censorship of God. They want to rewrite history. We simply want to coexist and to preserve our indentity. Since this whole thing started, Christians have been on the defensive. We are now starting to go back on the offensive. For far to long we have sat back and been the silent majority. Now our voice is starting to be be heard. We lost a battle in PA, that is true, but the war is far from over. God help us all if they win.

 

dont look at me, its not that i am unwilling to compromise, blame science, blame reality. it continues to exist and dosent even slightly compromise to fit with the bible.

blame the earth for not being flat. blame evolution for happening. blame the universe for not compromising.

 

I never said you weren't

I don't put my faith in science

Reality is perceived. My reality differs from yours

In my eyes reality proves the Bible all around me. Everywhere I look I see something that reinforces my faith.

I don't follow you here

It didn't happen. That's what I'm trying to tell you.

It doesn't have to. I'm not at odds with the universe.

 

God made me. I did not evolve from pond scum. The fact that my children exist is not due to luck and the weather being just right 8 million years ago. The teaching of evolution exclusively in any class room discriminates against me and all people of faith no matter what their religion is. I don't recall arguing that creation was science and could be proven scientifically. I shall just agree to disagree with you red.























































Even though I'm right and you're wrong. :hihi:

 

please enlighten me in this fact that evolution is right. I am willing to here i have read the origin of the species by Darwin and just like most works (like seperation of Church and state) people have expanded and told us what darwim was saying.. i just don't get it... staighten me out