Hillary's E-Mail (Breaking News: Smoking Gun Officially Announced)

Discussion in 'Free Speech Alley' started by Tiger in NC, Mar 12, 2015.

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  1. red55

    red55 curmudgeon Staff Member

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    No, they only need to produce an official email that she failed to submit from one of her contacts. Hillary has no capacity to delete the emails on other peoples servers. Rivals just want an opportunity to go fishing in her private mail.

    She has the right to filter out her private emails. There are political rivals that are eager to get into her private mail for very political reasons.

    Indeed, she should have realized that there were political pitfalls, it was inappropriate and she can surely see that now, but she did not break the law. http://thehill.com/policy/technology/234487-hillarys-emails-not-technically-illegal

    “There was no prohibition on using a non-State.gov account for official business as long as it was preserved,” State Department spokeswoman Marie Harf said on Tuesday.

    Jason R. Baron, a former director of litigation at the National Archives and lawyer at Drinker, Biddle & Reath, said the authors of the law had not anticipated that such a prohibition would be necessary. The Federal Records Act “assumed that high-level officials will use government-approved record keeping systems for the transaction of government business,” he said. “So while it is not illegal per se to use a private email account like Gmail, it is highly unusual for a high-level official to solely use a private account for the transaction of government business."

    Off topic, but you are far from alone in misusing that phrase and it is one of my pet peeves. The original phrase was "Hoist your own petard", which means "do your own dirty work". A petard was a medieval shaped charge consisting of a bell-like small cannon without a projectile. It was used to blow open a fortress gate by explosive force alone and it was effective at that. The drawback is that to use it someone had to go out and drive a hook into the gate and then someone had to run out with the petard, hoist it onto the hook, light the fuse, and run back, all under fire from the defenders. It was usually assigned to strong, brave young men who had a high mortality rate. But Shakespeare twisted the phrase, as he did so many, and in modern usage it has come to mean being blown up by their own bomb or "to fall into ones own trap".
     
  2. tirk

    tirk im the lyrical jessie james

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  3. Bengal B

    Bengal B Founding Member

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    Since nits are being picked don't you think that since the phrase has come to mean what we understand it to mean today after hundreds of years of usage that Winston's usage was correct? Language evolves, and whether it was Shakespeare or whoever first said it when the bulk of English speaking people accept the usage it is what it is and not what it was. Shakespeare was responsible for introducing many phrases that are still used today. Methinks thou dost protest too much.

    For example, I have always pronounced the word forte as four tay. According to supposedly correct English is should be pronounced fort. But just about everybody else also pronounces it four tay so it would seem to me that since it pronunciation has become commonly accepted that now it is a linguistically valid alternative.
     
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  4. LaSalleAve

    LaSalleAve when in doubt, mumble

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    I'm sorry they died. Sucks it really does. But if the GOP would raise their give a fuck level higher for Americans getting killed in America (a far far greater number by the way) and lower their give a fuck level for the deaths of 4 guys in a terrorist attack in Benghazi they wouldn't look so hypocritical and oblivious to the rest of the world from their little bubble. How many troops died from 2001-2008 in a war based on lies, and the GOP's answer was to just throw more troops at em. Bent out of shape for 4 deaths, but ok with thousands of American Troops as long as it keeps that military industrial complex raking in the dough.
     
    Last edited: Mar 14, 2015
  5. Winston1

    Winston1 Founding Member

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    Several points you try to fade here Red. First how do you know all of here official emails can be tracked down as you say. What about emails to foreign governments? Do you think Russia or Iran or Egypt ot France or Germany or any of them will search their files???? The challenge of finding them in the USA is staggering. Saying you can find them all is as you propose is ludicrous. The only way to have any chance of finding all of her official emails is by looking in her server.

    I'm sure her opponents Republican, Democrat and others would love to go through he personal emails. SHE was the one who made it an issue by her decision to use her server. Again by doing so she forfeited the right. Of course whether she can protect them is more of a political exercise than legal. The Clintons are experts at avoiding the consequences of bad decisions. We'll see what happen here.

    I don't pretend to know the legality of her action but it has been published that she broke Federal regulations and her own edict to the rest of the state department. That should at least justify a closer examination of her actions by authorities.

    I'll stand by Willie Shakespeare on the use of the phrase.
     
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  6. red55

    red55 curmudgeon Staff Member

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    I'm not protesting, just sharing an annoyance. I think that Shakespear's clever pun caused confusion about the phrase and totally changed its meaning. It causes people to confuse and conflate the two and get it wrong. "Hoist upon his own petard" is a corruption of both the original phrase and Shakepears pun, "hoist with his own petard"
     
  7. red55

    red55 curmudgeon Staff Member

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    I didn't say we need to find all of her emails. I said that if she deleted any emails on her server, it did not delete the emails from her recipients. They would be out there and her deleting any would not cause those to disappear. She gains nothing by deleting an official email if there are copies out there and she is not a fool. Only one official email that she didn't disclose needs to turn up to give weight that she was lying about turning them all over. If none turn up, then it gives weight to her statement that she complied fully.

    No, she doesn't. What law says that? The law only says that they must be archived.

    And that is happening, is it not? She seems to have let her aversion to leaks lead her to an unwise action and she seems to have violated the spirit of a departmental policy, if not an actual law. I just think that jumping to the conclusion that she "must be" a liar or she "has something to hide" is speculation not based on evidence.

    Fine, I just note that he was making a pun and it's meaning has gotten muddled over the years.
     
  8. uscvball

    uscvball Founding Member

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    There is a clear distinction between saying "bad things" and calling someone a liar. Dishonesty is a serious charge. The fact is, her boss did not give her a recommendation and that was a rarity.

    What she did back then wasn't an instance so much as it was calculated and dishonest and almost identical to what she is doing now. It's not a coincidence no matter how many supporters she has.

    Again with the labels. I have never said you were a lib or a Democrat. I stick to the discussion. I don't really care what side of the issue my opinion falls on. Hillary is not a stupid woman. As you said, 40 years and a law degree, are more than enough for her to simply excuse this email situation as "it was easier". What a crock. If you think the only reason she did it was to keep people from reading her private email, that's almost funny.

    You claimed a party of one....I pointed out that two are seated at that table.

    55,000 emails and not one about her trip to Libya just 1 year prior to Benghazi. Right.
    [​IMG]
     
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  9. red55

    red55 curmudgeon Staff Member

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    Good God! Her boss when she was 27 did not give her a recommendation! Clearly the rest of her career can be conveniently ignored. [​IMG]

    What? Writing a poor report to a committee is somehow identical to owning a private email server? A bit of a stretch, eh?

    Pardon me, but that is not what I think. Why would you imagine that? I think that she did it to limit State Department leaks of her official email. Now that she has released the official emails, she is trying to keep her private emails private, which is entirely understandable.

    Nope. In fact, I simply criticized one party. You criticized the other rather than refuting the criticism. Which is fine, but it is not a rebuttal.

    So what? There was no crisis a year before Benghazi. Is she expected to tweet her every thought wherever she goes? I understand your cynicism, but I must point out that it does not constitute a shred of evidence of any wrongdoing.

    Damn, you DO have a sense of humor!
     
  10. HalloweenRun

    HalloweenRun Founding Member

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    1. Having worked in some rather sensitive positions within the US Government, it is inconceivable that one would mix public and private emails. Hell, in my third career in the public school system, we all know that we can't mix school and personal emails.
    2. Having worked in some rather sensitive positions within the US Government, it is inconceivable that one would not inadvertently send one iota of classified material over the wrong system out of 55,000 attempts. You cant commingle shit.
    3. It is also inconceivable that any person, place, or thing, sophisticated enough to run his or her own server, would not be sophisticated enough to delete any and all content, if desired, with the DoD 5220.22-M Wipe routines.
    4. President Clinton, suffered from a malady. I coined a phrase to describe it, "the arrogance of intellect." His spouse, Hillary, does, too. And others. Unfortunately as has been seen throughout the ages, across the human spectrum, their is no correlation between intelligence and integrity. None.
    5. Sometimes you have to think, not respond, posture or slither!
     
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