There are a lot of good points from both sides of the issue here and I appreciate the info from Jetstorm. I primarily hear the anti-Evangel point of view and it has likely influenced my stance as well. I'm sure there are more cases similar to Thunder's assertion and I'd like to hear about them if anyone knows. Also, what is the % of students that play football at Evangel (grades 9-12 only)? I think that the coaching, offensive philosophy, and strength & conditioning that Jetstorm mentioned have probably been overlooked by many. Possibly because of the (alleged) recruiting and types of high profile players that have come out of Evangel. When you think of Evangel, you think of a lot of guys that haven't done well at the next level and have had trouble adjusting to players/teams/systems. Dawson is the only guy I can think of that played 4 years without a soap opera around him. I'm sure there are others but they are overshadowed. Also, I was a huge fan of Josh Booty when he first came to LSU (after baseball). Then he made some of the most bonehead mistakes I've ever seen a QB make and it was obvious from Saban and the other coaches that he was warned beforehand about "not running the ball" at Bama and "drawing up a play that didn't exist" against UAB. In his defense, I respected him a little more when he left for the NFL. He saw that the team was divided and knew it was the right thing to do. Even though Josh was 24 (or so) when he enrolled, I think he had a lot of growing up to do that made him a better person when he left LSU. One of my first anti-Evangel moments came when I was reading a story in the Houston Chronice in June 2001. There were a lot of quotes from coaches trying to defend the Evangel "football factory" by bringing God into the equation and it just came off sounding bad. For instance, Josh's dad (John) said something to the exent that people have to realize that kids in public schools usually don't believe in God and they're being taught by teachers that aren't allowed to teach about religion and he even blamed some of society's woes on public schools. I just thought that was a little harsh. If anyone knows how to get a link to that story, I'd appreciate it. Houston Chronice in May or June 2001 (main point of story was that rape charge against the coach). FYI, I hate the Cowboys & 49ers (Yankees too).
I hear you Jean-Lafitte but when there are a-holes like Cecil Colllins that wear the purple & gold it makes it hard to do. I think respect for your fellow human race outweighs football sometimes. Maybe Cecil has grown up a little in the last few years but I've heard first-hand stories of the type of guy he was.
Re: Let's make it a rule on TigerForums . . . Now there is some very sound advice we will all be better people for following !! though I would add coaches to the list.
If you want insight... .. into Josh Booty's character and judgement, read this: http://www.morningjournalnews.com/story.asp?ID=16023 Some of these quotes really rub me the wrong way.
Jetstorm, I have never bashed Evangel because i know the points you made about Caddo Parish and Northwest Louisiana athletics to be true. Many fine athletes have come out of this area in spite of the fact that many of the HS athletic departments were not up to par. Academically, many of these athletes did not have the grades or scores to get into big time D-1 universities. How many times have you watched NFL games and seen a cornerback or RB who went to NSU or Tech or NLU and wonder: "Why didn't LSU get him?" For better or worse, Evangel has given these players the opportunity to play at places like LSU and Texas. There is much to be critical of concerning Evangel, but when I consider where and how they came about I temper that criticism. JMO
Christians too often speak in spiritual cliches and don't realize how it sounds outside the church. Evangel has never mastered the art of public relations, in fact they shoot themselves in the foot more often than not. I have no personal connection to Evangel though I know many who do pro and con. What I will tell you is that Evangel has done wonders for high school football in Shreveport. The sport died in the '80s. Though I was living out of state, on visits home I would notice zero interest in high school football. Sports coverage on the news would show almost totally empty stands, the paper hardly mentioned HS football. But Evangel has forced the issue and HS football is becoming an event once again. It still isn't to the level it was in the '70s when I attended but the interest has vastly grown in the last decade and Evangel is largely responsible for that. The other high schools finally had to start putting some effort into building a competitive team and the level of competition in Shreveport has greatly improved. Shreveport teams are now becoming competitive with teams throughout the state. Without Evangel, this would never have happened. I have lived all over the country and everywhere you go you will find dominate teams, usually public schools, that are vilified and accused of cheating. They recruit, they hold back, yada yada yada... I have only been to 2 Evangel games in the 6 years that I have been back in Shreveport. I respect the program and what it has done for high school sports in Shreveport. I don't hear anyone bashing the Southwood HS girls basketball team that has dominated the state for so many years. Good programs exist and bad programs exist. If Evangel was cheating, Pat Henry would have nailed them by now. If you hate seeing Evangel win all the time, then get behind the program at your school and help them build a competitive program that can knock Evangel on its knees. That would be something any football fan could appreciate. But when you are celebrating your victory, thank Evangel for forcing the issue.
Excellent post Jetstorm - you sound like you just left one of First Assembly's church services. And though - you DEFINITELY had some GOOD points about ECA (like them or not) - you left out some glaring "issues." It's not worth getting into - what's dead is dead - and ECA has cut their ties with LSU anyhow - and are moving "on" to the Big XII. But - WATCH VERY CLOSELY how that program begins to self-implode, now that Booty is out of there. You mentioned Calvary - which, by the way, is where Booty is now - running the school as principal (I believe), but beginning an "athletic" department. The school already goes thru the 9th grade; and it will begin a full high school next year. So - that being said, ECA had best look out. The "interesting" thing about this is - why Booty left. If you recall, the reason was "matters of the ministry" - and I've heard a thousand things as to what that means (including statements from a few people who participate in bible study with Mr. Booty). Let it be clear that ECA - denny duron and his buddies are the clean cut holy rollers as advertised. I know people, personally, who have PULLED THEIR CHILDREN FROM THAT SCHOOL because of a lack of focus on education - to that, I also know a teacher that left after TWO WEEKS of teaching - saying academically the school was a joke. Finally - I have heard , first hand, the "God wanted us to win" comment AT LEAST 100 times at ECA games. Now - i've never heard it from players, coaches, or administrators - but i've heard it time and time again from member of First Assembly. So - they got the line somewhere??? Also - your "clean-cut" argument - what about 5-plus and 8-plus?? Remember that?? The ECA created red-shirt program for which ECA WAS CITED BY THE LHSAA. Remember that?? The program that "allowed" parents who "didn't think" their child was ready for "high-school" to spend a year in 8-plus. Give me a break - have you ever been on that campus?? The school (up until a few years ago) was on one freakin' campus - how could your child "not be ready" for high school at ECA - it was on the same damn grounds - with the same kids? The LHSAA told Evangel that they could keep it - but it would count as a year of eligibilty for an athlete. Amazingly enough - ECA ended that program shortly after LHSAA ruling. I believe they still have 5-plus - and encourage most parents to put their kids thru it (regardless of grades/test scores) - JUST IN CASE THEY END UP BEING THE NEXT Booty - this way, his senior year he'll be 19 years old (and have had one more year in the ECA system). So - take all this with a grain of salt - and form your own opinions. There were some valid points in your argument about the good of ECA - but that was, by no stretch - the WHOLE story.
Cecil Collins committed some serious crimes. I hope that he pays his debt to society for his crimes and makes something good out of his life. He was a great football player. Very, very misguided, but great. :geaux: :lsug:
Re: If you want insight... Aw, come on, Tigermark, I see a guy shocked and upset about being cut. I think you are reading too much into these quotes. :geaux: :lsug:
Sport Tiger, I am well aware of the controversy surrounding 8-plus. I really thought it was much ado about nothing, an in-depth investigation revealed that very few ECA football players went through it, and the only one who ever became a high-profile recruit was Brock Berlin. ECA's program was nowhere near as advanced and systematic as West Monroe's, where I have heard (no evidence to back this up, just word of mouth, so I don't know if it's true or not) that parents were basically told by coaches or "those close to the program" that a second year of 8th grade was all but required to be seriously considered as a quality player at West Monroe. It was West Monroe, not Evangel, that drew the fire of the LHSAA on holdbacks and caused the LHSAA to change the rules. Of course, some parents are so depraved about this, they either hold their kids back in 5th grade or they have them intentionally fail the LEAP21 test. That happens everywhere, probably even at Evangel. The coaches state-wide have learned their lesson though, and they keep their distance and stay out of matters like that, at least on the surface. I don't know what happened between Booty and Duron that caused that fallout. I don't know much about that. I think it's a shame that it resulted in Booty's leaving the school. But what's done is done. I've had many contacts with Duron over the years, and he and Evangel worked closely with our high school when I was playing football, consulting on strength/conditioning, offensive tactics, etc., and I was really impressed by him as a good guy. I feel the same way about Mr. Booty. Most Evangel people would really rather not get in the middle of that and choose sides, and I'm sure there are good reasons for that. I don't know the story on that. I'll be dead certain on one thing though, and we will see this in the next few years. Evangel won't be the same without Booty as quarterbacks coach. They will still be tough, they just won't be the incredible juggernaut they once were. As for Booty at CBA, Calvary will try to follow the Evangel model for building a program, but will find the road rougher. When Evangel was coming up, the school system in Caddo Parish was in chaos and they were one of two private schools in town and the only one of which was committed to building championship athletics. Calvary will have to fight Evangel and a much improved Caddo Parish School System for students and football players. I don't doubt that with Mr. Booty's leadership, it will become a good school and have a great football team, but I just don't see them making it to 5A and becoming super-dominant. They probably won't even be given the chance, what with the new rules concerning classification. I've heard Evangel's weak in academics. I'll just say this; last year, their LEAP21 5th and 8th grade test scores were equal to Bossier Parish's average and superior to Caddo Parish's average. They may not be an elite college prep school, but they've never claimed to be. I'm afraid they are not living up to their potential academically, but that is their problem, which they will improve upon when they feel like it. As for "God wanted us to win," it's been said before that every fan base has it's idiots. Evangel is no exception. I have never heard that with my own ears or seen it with my own eyes. If you have, hey I'm not going to say it didn't happen and call you a liar. Fine. I just don't think it reflects the views of a majority of those folks. Otherwise, I think I would have seen this too. We will find out this year and next whether or not Evangel is truly holding a grudge against LSU and/or vice-versa. LSU is recruiting a few Evangel players, and one I think we need to go after especially hard is Chris Bowers, a 6'3", 260 lb. DE. Bowers is an absolute MONSTER, he singlehandedly destroyed West Monroe in the 5A title game last year. If we get him, and we just might, then the rift between LSU and Evangel, real or imagined, will be officially a thing of the past. I think LSU fans need to think hard about what happened between LSU/Evangel from 1998-2000. First of all, Dennis Dunn never had a problem with LSU. He had a problem with DiNardo (and didn't we all after 1998?) It was more than losing. He was getting inside reports from unhappy Evangel players on the LSU team at the time of an idiot coaching staff, a program completely out of control rife with academic/disciplinary problems, etc.,etc. We were in bad shape, and anyone who says we weren't is just plain stupid. Think about it hard. Put yourself in Dunn's position. If you are a coach of bigtime blue-chip talent, would YOU recommend your players go to such a program? Seriously? I don't think I could in good-conscience. Dunn will do what is best for his players, not blindly shunt them down the LSU pipeline regardless of whether or not LSU is good for them. Dunn merely dared to say publicly what a lot of coaches in this state were thinking privately at the time; that LSU was a program in turmoil that was not a good place to go for good players at the time. And honestly, it was. Thank God Saban is here and that he has already taken steps to bring Evangel back into the fold. Do I think Evangel is all good. Of course not. They have their flaws and their negative moments. I don't have a direct connection to the school anymore, so I try to be neutral and see the points of people critical of Evangel. But I just don't have patience for wild accusations, rumors, and vicious personal attacks that have no basis in fact. And 90% of the stuff going around about them has no basis in fact.
