I agree that regulation is a necessary evil in some cases. Whether or not I trust OUR government to be smart enough to enforce it is another thing. I disagree here. Just because someone has a complete lack of faith in the government doesn't necessarily mean they are a paranoid person. Do I believe there are those that want a gun-free society? You'd better believe it. It's not hard to find one of these idiots spouting off at the mouth, just like it's not hard to find some tin-foil wearing conspiracy theorist hording guns and yelling "they're watching!".. As far as the "government is The People" thing, it sounds nice, but I don't agree that's the case now days. The government is the people that make it up... Most of them could give a rats ass what we think.. If you don't believe me, look at congress' job approval numbers. A congress that is only approved of by 20% (which is up from 13% btw) of the people or less does not represent "The People". Maybe they did when they were campaigning, but once they got their butts in the seat, people be damned. Did you say that on accident, or are you finally starting to get what I've been saying this whole thread? What makes you think they would enforce such a policy? We can't even keep people from getting 2, 3, 4, 5+ DWI's because the punishment doesn't intimidate them. Na, he won't. Not as long as you stick around.. :wave:
i am simply pointing out that you like to declare that what you want is "progress" and you never seem to understand the subjective nature of change. what you see as progress is seen by others as horrible things being forced upon them. so people are not simply being obstructionist jerks by resisting change. it is perfectly rational for people to be obstructionist. you are not the one that defines what "progress" is.
I said it's a paranoid belief, not paranoid people. I asked SF to name one, I ask you the same thing. Outside of a few random kooks, What organization that represents a significant faction in this country is advocating that private ownership of guns be revoked? I think it's a straw man. Not one of them is campaigning to have private ownership of guns revoked. Not one. If it's not a paranoid delusion, then it is disinformation and propaganda. I've been consistent in this thread with what I think. You ask questions that don't make a lot of sense to me? Can you speak plainly? There has to be a law or ZERO enforcement can happen. What are you suggesting? That since enforcing laws is imperfect that we should just quit having laws?
So what? Everybody makes points here that are disagreed with. You don't seem to have a point about gun laws and say that you don't care. So instead you pick a word out of one of my points and try to make an issue of it. Sorry, if you have nothing to contribute to the topic, I must move on. Listen to yourself. :lol: Nor are you. I advised you to look it up in the dictionary and you would understand what I'm talking about. Now you are off on some tangent about redefining "progress". Look, everyone understands what progress is. I ain't playing your mind games. Make a point about gun laws or STFU.
the difference is that you like to cast your viewpoints as above the fray, moderate reasonable progress, and anyone that resists is obstructing progress. its a view that lacks perspective. everyone has a view, and their views are right and wrong based on arguments, not the your self-defined idea of what is extreme and what isnt. there are people that think your views are extreme.
How convenient. I never said that there is a country-wide movement to take away guns completely, but fair enough we can go that route. Show me where the NRA specifically advocates the ownership of grenade launchers and artillery, as you earlier stated. And if you find those exact words, then I'd openly deem them kooks too, which means they don't count since you specified "outside of a few kooks". Just like you'll likely say about some of the following: "Only the police should have handguns." “When we got organized as a country, we wrote a fairly radical Constitution with a radical Bill of Rights, giving a radical amount of individual freedom to Americans. There’s too much personal freedom. When personal freedom’s being abused, you have to move to limit it.” - Bill Clinton "Banning guns addresses a fundamental right of all Americans to feel safe.” " If I could have gotten 51 votes in the Senate of the United States for an outright ban, picking up every one of them: "Mr. and Mrs. America, turn 'em all in," I would have done it.” "The national guard fulfills the militia mentioned in the Second amendment. Citizens no longer need to protect the states or themselves." - Senator Dianne Feinstein " ...we need much stricter gun control, and eventually should bar the ownership of handguns" - Former Senator William Clay "Banning guns is an idea whose time has come." - (Then) Senator Joe Biden “I shortly will introduce legislation banning the sale, manufacture or possession of handguns (with exceptions for law enforcement and licensed target clubs). . . . It is time to act. We cannot go on like this. Ban them!” - Former Senator John Chafee Will that suffice? Or, are all these politicians kooks who don't represent significant numbers of people, as you earlier stated the Government does? See above.. Admittedly those quotes are old, but don't be fooled into thinking the sentiment is dead, especially in lieu of the AZ shooting. You are the one that said the gun runners won't follow the law. I was just pointing out that I've been saying that since my first post in this thread, that's all. I'm an Independent, not an anarchist. And I told you in the last post, I don't have all of the answers. And again, I didn't say get rid of the laws, I just said filling in loopholes reasonably and strict enforcement of the laws we do have would go a long way to help. But by no means do I have a perfect solution.
Red, take your meds and edit the post.. The last two quotes you replied to in this message was Martin, not me.:huh: :rofl:
That's bullchit and you know it. You are the one that tries to characterize my viewpoints that way. Why don't you just make your points and let me make mine. I have viewpoints that are concise, well-stated, and to the point. You have rambling viewpoints that make little sense, so you attack pieces of mine instead of trying to add something to the conversation. Don't you have some ideas of your own?
I can remember no bill ever asking Americans to surrender firearms. I can't imagine one, even now. I actually said that the shady gun dealers won't cooperate with the authorities unless it is made a law and strictly enforced, which the gun lobby fights.
We've asked Brett many times to restore the multiquote function, but it ain't a high priority apparently. Cut and paste is an invitation to screw it up. I do that regularly.
