A very small sect of Protestants actually take the Bible at what it says about predestination, identity, full redemption, co-resurrection, the righteousness in Christ, the fulfillment of the law, and Spirit-filled obedience. Most "Christians" believe and are taught that they still have to earn their way into Heaven through righteous works. Most Christians are doing, you better believe it. They are constantly doing. The only difference is the direction and the power source. The chaff will only be separated from the wheat by Jesus himself.
I'm not pointing fingers at you, but even the demons agree and confess that Jesus is LORD and understand what he stands for. Jesus is a Person. Understanding of the message of salvation, redemption, and grace is not quite enough. Savage was definitely right when he said that liberalism is a mental disorder.
Are you trying to make a point? Because the last time I checked demons didnt believe and worship Jesus, as I do. I usually ignore you, but your post is weird.
Most Christians are doing, you better believe it. They are constantly doing. The only difference is the direction and the power source.[/QUOTE] i disagree. i think most dont believe good works (the whole james story) is necessary for salvation. and there is a huge chasm between what they are taught and what they know/believe. i bet if leno asked people on the street what makes someone a christian, of those that call themselves christian a substantial % (maybe even a majority) would say something about being a good person. but i suppose much of this depends on how you define christian. i dont exactly get the relevance to the quoted post. are you trying to say that individuals dont get to decide whether to believe or not?
The part that I quoted. What exactly do other religions do that you fault Christians for not doing? Edited to say I'm not expecting a comprehensive list. Just curious for some examples.
i dont fault any religion for anything. and i dont fault christianity for having grace which other religions seem to lack. i do think that there would be many fewer christians (particularly in western societies) if it included a heavy dose of things to do---like pray 5 times a day whereever you are on a mat, or have no food or drink for a month during daylight --muslims or do no "work" on the sabbath --jews or constantly fight with yourself to become enlightened over your numerous lives to get to "heaven"--hindus or to end suffering --buddists (that one in particular would be tough). my use of "lazy" was in reference to this. i dont think it makes christianity any less true but it is an obvious distinction. christians view grace as a wonderful gift from a loving god and people of other religions view it as a peculiar convenience.
if christianity is real, then i hope so too. the way i see it the burden for explainin anything lies with believers. atheism is the starting point. you were born atheist. there was never a real reason to change. again, it doesnt seem all that convenient to me. i have to deal with having no real purpose on earth, probably buring in hell, having no way to understand why bad things happen, and generally being a soulless shell of a person. i would argue that belief is the thing that is "convenient". it nice explains everything so you dont have to be ignorant like i am. it wraps the mysteries of the universe up in a nice little package. really, it isnt about what is convenient, for real. the point is that there is simply no reason to believe, that is all. just because a bunch of people are going around preaching, and a book says mumbo jumbo, that isnt enough. and since god hasnt talked to me like he has you guys, where does that leave me? i think it does make you crazy. but everyone i kinow is crazy one way or another. i am scared of revolving doors and i do not like to touch live fish. thats crazy those things are not scary at all. nice work. i will start calling it "the magic show" as well. as you know i am already a big fan of calling religious folks "sorcerers". not only is it funny and kinda disrespectful, it is an accurate way to portray these clowns. what do you think are the percent chances that christianity is mostly right? that god exists at all? obviously the odds of god existing are far greater than chriatinity being true. obviously it is impossible to know. but christianity is so ludicrous, i mean really, totally absurd. red's idea, that some god of undetermined nature exists, this is far easier to believe. still wholly unsupported by evidence though.
You talked about "understanding what Jesus stands for and how it impacts your life" as a reason why you are a believer... not how you have a personal relationship with Jesus. I was making the point that people who "understand what Jesus stands for" and even who believe that he is Lord won't necessarily get into heaven because of that alone.
god is making it damn tough to get into heaven these days. presumably i have to not only believe in jeebus, and believe he is lord, i have to believe that he gave himself up temporarily on the cross to forgive my sins. not a real sacrifice by jesus. he was fine afterwards and could become human again if he wanted. and god didnt really sacrifice his son. jesus is still around kickin it. and god is all powerful, he could make another son if he wanted. so this "only begotten son" stuff is silly. god could beget unlimited jesi if he wanted. sacrifice is not possible if you are all powerful. so i dont feel like god really gave up jesus for my sins. and anyways my sins are not very bad, i am a good dude.
