Freedom of Choice Act

Good point and I agree with you completely. Biology dictates that the woman must most directly deal with the consequences, but I believe the man is just as responsible.

 

I am against the death penalty in cases where there are adequate alternative means to protect society from the criminal. This puts me in the opposed category about 100% of the time in America.

I can see some justification in places where maximum security prisons do not exiist.

I still say that is a cop out. You can't be forgainst it.

 

I do not mean to ignore the role of the man, but since the choice to kill the baby is the mother's it was her choice I was more critical of. The dude of course is equally responsible for the conception.

 

It has no bearing. Life is not an arbitrary thing. Either that cell is alive or it is not. Since we cannot determine that it is not alive we should assume it is.

So weak.

Inflamatory language. Yeah it is until you can demonstrate to me with a non arbitrary argument that it is not.

Yes I do think that everyone deserves to not be murdered.

For someone who throws a hissy fit when someone else attempts to speak for them you sure like to speak for others.

 

I think the anti-abortion position would be alot more valid if they banded together on issues like adoption, welfare, and sex education with the same fervor as abortion. The "Pro-Life" crowd has a huge amount of political influence and massive amounts of funding in this country, and most of it only goes towards trying to force women to birth children they don't want.

Personal anecdote: I grew up in two Fundamentalist churches. They were hardcore against abortion, and even provided massive amounts of money and manpower when Operation Rescue came to Baton Rouge. I know, I was out there protesting the clinic with them.

Most of the people there still believed that women should stay in the home, and these were large churches, so as such there were lots of children in the church. Now, of all of those little kids I met or grew up with in the 18 years of my churchgoing life, only 2 of them were adopted. These churches were also against teaching contraception in school, and most, if not all, of the congregants were staunch Republicans with harsh feelings towards welfare and social programs.

This is why I just cannot take most of the staunch "Pro-Life" people very seriously.Most of them just simply don't care about what happens to that life after they are born.

 

wrong. i would venture to guess that in most cases, the male goes along with the decision and it is a joint decision. he often shares the financial responsibility of the decision, or takes the woman to the abortion clinic (what a swell guy). if you are going to hold a woman responsible you must also hold the man responsible that goes along with it.

that includes if abortion is made illegal, and doing so incurs jail time, the male must also serve that time. ESPECIALLY if the woman can prove the male approved and/or provided funds for the abortion.

if abortion is made illegal, an unintended consequence is that more women are going to be on their own (no matter what they chose to do) as no male is going to want to go to jail because he couldnt keep it in his pants.

 

Fair enough. So you at least don't want to execute mothers who have abortions.

Ok, here's a comparable example. I'm don't smoke cigarettes. I hate being around them. It pisses me off to see cigarette butts on the ground. But I am against all of these smoking bans, because I feel that people should have the right to light up in private property. Does this make me pro-cigarette?

 

It really just equates to irresponsible behavior on the part of both individuals. But how many cases exist of a man wanting to keep the child, the woman not wanting the child, and the child being born? Not many, but there are men who do not want the abortion. I don't think there is a legal precedent for this. So while I agree that men are every bit as complicit in the pregnancy, and the decision to abort, if they are against the abortion, there is little they can do to stop it.

And I do not mean to suggest that outlawing abortions will not create a host of other problems for mothers and children. Those problems already exist today and are well documented.

But all those are byproducts of the irresponsible behavior which is being completely overlooked. Of course it is a man or womans right to have unprotected, pre-marital sex. But why must an unwanted child bear the brunt of this? Obviously abortion is something that is distasteful to most women, but surely you can see that the child has it a bit worse?

At what point did it become socially acceptable to become pregnant out of wedlock? Of course it happened before, but it is now fairly acceptable. I think society has found a way to conveniently transfer responsibility for our actions by aborting pregnancies.

Don't tell me that you don't see a marked change in the way Americans view their own personal responsibility, as opposed to when our parents grew up. Again, I think personal freedom is a sacred thing and should not be abridged, but I also feel that carries the weight of responsibility, and imo, abortion manages to shirk that.