For those who want to hold hands and sing Kumbaya with Muslims:

Discussion in 'Free Speech Alley' started by SabanFan, Aug 10, 2006.

  1. OkieTigerTK

    OkieTigerTK Tornado Alley

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    Ice chests loaded up with things I can't get here are a big reason we drive occasionally. Last year, we flew a lot more for our trips to Nola than in past years. I think it is back to driving more often just because of the added time and hassle. (The Nola trip is usually aruond 10 1/2 to 11 hours for us when driving.)

    My sister has the luxury of a corporate jet when she travels for business. It must be nice.
     
  2. LSUsupaFan

    LSUsupaFan Founding Member

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    Right. And terrorists should be hunted, cornered, and killed. I was addressing the particular point of killing all Muslims, which I have seen in many posts recently.

    I am against alot of what Isreal does, especially the numerous human rights violations, but not this. In fact I have stated many times, over and over that Isreal is doing the right thing. What I am speaking out against is the frequent calls for a Muslim final souloution, which by the was is stupid.
     
  3. SabanFan

    SabanFan The voice of reason

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    I don't want to kill all of them. I just want them out of the country. Even the non-dangerous ones are a pain in the ass to deal with. And, you have no way of knowing who the non-dangerous ones are. We can't even trust the native born ones. They've been brainwashed at the mosques. When the threat of terror is no more, let em return. Of course we'll all be 2000 years dead by then.:hihi:
     
  4. saltyone

    saltyone So Mote It Be

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    Supa, Please explain how Israel is guilty of " numerous human rights violations".
     
  5. red55

    red55 curmudgeon Staff Member

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    Last week the Israelis dropped leaflets ordering civilians to leave southern Lebanon. The Lebanese army, under UN authority, asked for safe passage to escort a convoy of civilians fleeing the area as per Israeli instructions. The convoy was granted safe passage, but was bombed anyway.

    This was not Hezbollah propaganda. The convoy was accompanied by UN officials and the media. It gave every impression that the Israelis tempted the civilians to leave their hiding places and get on the highways where they could be attacked.

    It's a war, Salty. And human rights get trampled in wars as a matter of course. The Israelis have been at war since 1948. They are hardened, cold, ruthless and efficient in the war business. They don't give a rat's ass about the human rights of their enemies.

    There are dozens of UN resolutions on Israeli human rights violations. Another one is coming up in October to deal with the Lebanon conflict violations.

    I'm saying that Israel tramples human rights like the Nazis trampled theirs, but that is a natural consequence of a country at perpetual war. They've developed a very hard shell because they have to. If this war ever ends, so will Israeli intransigence because they are essentially good people.

    But to deny that Israeli is guilty of human rights violations is to ignore an awful lot of real evidence.
     
  6. red55

    red55 curmudgeon Staff Member

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    Don't misrepresent my position, amigo. I never said that and you know it.

    I said that war produces human rights violations automatically. War is always a human-rights violation to civilians in the area. Hezbollah is doing an awful lot of civilian killing and ignoring human rights, obviously. My comments were only that Israel is not guiltless as Salty seemed to suggest.

    Israel is our ally and they are doing what we would do in the same circumstances, but it is not nessessary to depict them as saints. Certainly not as faultless.

    Obviously the Lebanese army is not a target of Israel and their presence should have convinced Irael that there were no Hezbollah among the civilan convoy which was fleeing exactly as Israel had ordered. It didn't work.
    Israel made a mistake, they admitted it, and civilians were killed needlessly even though it was never intended. War is hell on human rights.
     
  7. saltyone

    saltyone So Mote It Be

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    Don't take this personally red, but that's just about all total BS. To make it easy, I put the BS in bold for you. The "civilians" in lebanon are as guilty as anyone else for what is happening. They've had ample opportunity to rid their country of it's terrorist influence. They have elected to turn a blind eye to what is going on, and are now paying the price. They are not faultless, so their deaths are not "human rights violations". They are casualties, and should be counted as such. No more, no less.
     
  8. red55

    red55 curmudgeon Staff Member

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    Sure, Salty. Israel is faultless, guiltless, never makes an error, never acts in haste, always is prudent, relentlessly protects civilians, and has never killed an innocent person. They obey all international mandates and UN resolutions, respect all human rights, and are the finest people on the face of the planet.

    How could I have been so blind? :dis:

    You are wearing your blinders on this issue, I think. Just because Hezbollah is repugnant doesn't mean that Israel is adorable.
     
  9. JSracing

    JSracing Founding Member

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    you went from one extreme to the other REd. Salty is right on this. Isreal may be guilty of collateral damage but it's inevitable. I don't think they PLAN it as hezbollah does. The difference is intent.

    And what if they did intend to draw them out? they're backs are up agaisnt the wall. is this a game of right or wrong or survival?

    the indians ( native amaericans) believed it was a sign of weakness to show mercy or give quarter. They beleived their God's did not smile upon them for showing mercy on their enemy.

    At one point, in the old testament, God told the Isrealites to spare no man, nor beast when they were at war with their enemy. They did not listen and God told them that these people would be a problem for them forever.

    Why do we consider ALL human life precious? I can hear of and read of a whole bunch of human life in memphis that just isn't worth keeping around. Murderous thugs. There is a law unto society and a law unto God. their human form has to answer to the basic laws of society, while their souls are God's domain.

    hezbollah does not do their fellow country men any favors, they just help them to die sooner.

    this religious war is nothing but hate/racisim. And it wont go away.

    AND you can sometimes teach people better, but when you can't and he threatens your family? kill him. that or be killed. that's as basic as it gets, sad but true. Those of us who know better don't like it, think it's barbaric, but in the end we all want to survive. So teach those that will listen. Kill those that would harm you or your family. That is all the Isaellis are doing.
     
  10. red55

    red55 curmudgeon Staff Member

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    Sarcasm is that way, after all.

    You guys aren't entirely following me here. I'm saying that both sides create collateral damage in a shooting war. I'm saying that both sides also kill civilians directly in a shooting war. I'm saying that we don't know the true intent of either party.

    We do have a tendency to glorify our allies and villify our enemies. I'm just injecting a note of reality. I'd rather hold hands and sing Kumbaya with Israel, too.
     

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