I can see you misunderstood my whole point then. I was trying to take a different approach to someone who isn't a christian during the first part. The second part was directed at how little we know of everything, yet everything exists whether we know about it or not.
Hedging your bet, eh? Well, I'm also concerned about a diabolical unicorn who buttrapes caucasian people in the afterlife. Might as well appease him and lay myself prostrate to the image of the unicorn, just in case. So instead it is better to trust 100% in the written words of ancient men who knew even less about the nature of the world around them than todays typical 5 year old? That is the fallacy in your logic. You trust that the authors of the Bible knew exactly what god was and was not. These men grew up in a time of severe ignorance and illiteracy. Yet these ancient men were somehow wiser about science and nature than the men of today?
Oh and just to toss it out there that my experience with evangelicals was unique to my church, consider this: the pastor of the church I went to later went on to be the Executive Director of the Southern Baptist Convention.
People don't like it real light in bars because it is a more comfortable social atmosphere when the lights are dim. This doesn't only apply to bars. Nice restaurants do this as well. As far as not having sex with the lights on, speak for yourself. I love seeing my partner (my wife now, but back when I was dating the same applied). Some people like the lights dimmed during sex because of the shame of flaws in their naked appearance. Some, just like my point with bars, feel like dim lights sets a romantic mood. The ones who do it because of some shame about the morality of sex only feel that way because religion taught them to be ashamed of it, not because of some innnate moral aversion to sex put there by god.
i am still confused. did god sacrifice his only son for my sins or not? didnt jesus ascend into heaven to sit at the right hand of the father? so where is the sacrifice? jesus and god are still hanging out. what exactly is limiting him? of course. this is a totally pointless statement. i am not the one with the answers. i have no conclusions for the universe. i am the one accepting the unknown. since when is it arrogant to admit ignorance? i am not the one that knows heaven exists and why and who created it and how to get there and all kinds of other things. i say the one who presumes to know all this is arrogant. i am the one who explicitly admits i am clueless as to why the universe is here. arrogant? it is one of many books like it. and jesus is one of many like him.
. The ones who do it because of some shame about the morality of sex only feel that way because religion taught them to be ashamed of it, not because of some innnate moral aversion to sex put their by god and nature.[/QUOTE] You are absolutely correct in many cases here. However, many people are not ashamed of their bodies and are happy that God made man and woman to enjoy the pleasures of their bodies. (preferably after holy matrimony) HOWEVER!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :hihi: :hihi: :hihi: Further reasons---------- 1) not all men are created EQUAL:hihi: 2) not all one night stands are really nice to look at :hihi: 3) some pick-ups always look better by the bottle :hihi: Old quote #1----I have never gone to bed with an ugly woman.....Woke up with a few though. jk
umm. i would say no. many believe the more significant part of jesus was the fact that god became man (the christmas part). god the father didnt sacrifice jesus. god the son allowed himself to be sacrificed. and yes it was for you if you choose to believe it. well, jesus was still "sacrificed" in the most strict sense of the word. the man part of the god the son. you know, symbolism with what jews did back then--sacrifice (kill) the best of the flock as an offering to god. his nature seems to me that they say you are wrong and you say they are wrong, have i inferred incorrectly? . now this i dont buy
well, what an incredible sacrifice god the son made, allowing himself to be killed in human form, when he could just go back to human form as many times as he wanted, and he went right back to heaven anyways. he must feel like he really did sacrifice something sitting there with magical powers in heaven, with anything and everything he can imagine available to him instantly. right, but normal people arent god. when they die it really is a loss. if you are a god-thing, the son of god or whatever, you really arent giving up anything. i see, god isnt all powerful. he is limited by his own nature. sucks, i would rather be unlimited. i wonder who designed him to be that way. they are saying they know the order of the universe, who created it, why we are here, how to live forever. i am saying we know none of these things. they are the ones making assertions without evidence. i am only reminding us that no evidence = no evidence. well, you should, the bible is one of many ancient history texts, and jesus is just one of many legendary figures, many of whom also claim virgin birth and the power to save humanity from sin. it is just by chance that he caught on. messiahs have been around since long before jesus and they continue to be a dime a dozen.
It is pretty funny when the atheists know more about scripture than the Christians. John 3:16 - King James Version For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. And here is Jesus confronting god in the Garden of Gethsemane. Clearly Jesus was asking for a way out, which was denied by god. If he was just planning on ascending to heaven in three days, why the personal torment? And if this was the plan that he and god had agreed on, why is Judas called the betrayer, rather than the enabler? Matthew 26:36-46 Then Jesus went with his disciples to a place called Gethsemane, and he said to them, “Sit here while I go over there and pray.” 37 He took Peter and the two sons of Zebedee along with him, and he began to be sorrowful and troubled. 38 Then he said to them, “My soul is overwhelmed with sorrow to the point of death. Stay here and keep watch with me.” 39 Going a little farther, he fell with his face to the ground and prayed, “My Father, if it is possible, may this cup be taken from me. Yet not as I will, but as you will.” 40 Then he returned to his disciples and found them sleeping. “Could you men not keep watch with me for one hour?” he asked Peter. 41 “Watch and pray so that you will not fall into temptation. The spirit is willing, but the body is weak.” 42 He went away a second time and prayed, “My Father, if it is not possible for this cup to be taken away unless I drink it, may your will be done.” 43 When he came back, he again found them sleeping, because their eyes were heavy. 44 So he left them and went away once more and prayed the third time, saying the same thing. 45 Then he returned to the disciples and said to them, “Are you still sleeping and resting? Look, the hour is near, and the Son of Man is betrayed into the hands of sinners. 46 Rise, let us go! Here comes my betrayer! Luke 22:39-46 Jesus went out as usual to the Mount of Olives, and his disciples followed him. 40 On reaching the place, he said to them, “Pray that you will not fall into temptation.” 41 He withdrew about a stone’s throw beyond them, knelt down and prayed, 42 “Father, if you are willing, take this cup from me; yet not my will, but yours be done.” 43 An angel from heaven appeared to him and strengthened him. 44 And being in anguish, he prayed more earnestly, and his sweat was like drops of blood falling to the ground. 45 When he rose from prayer and went back to the disciples, he found them asleep, exhausted from sorrow. 46 “Why are you sleeping?” he asked them. “Get up and pray so that you will not fall into temptation.” Mark 14:32-42 They went to a place called Gethsemane, and Jesus said to his disciples, “Sit here while I pray.” 33 He took Peter, James and John along with him, and he began to be deeply distressed and troubled. 34 “My soul is overwhelmed with sorrow to the point of death,” he said to them. “Stay here and keep watch.” 35 Going a little farther, he fell to the ground and prayed that if possible the hour might pass from him. 36 “Abba, Father,” he said, “everything is possible for you. Take this cup from me. Yet not what I will, but what you will.” 37 Then he returned to his disciples and found them sleeping. “Simon,” he said to Peter, “are you asleep? Could you not keep watch for one hour? 38 Watch and pray so that you will not fall into temptation. The spirit is willing, but the body is weak.” 39 Once more he went away and prayed the same thing. 40 When he came back, he again found them sleeping, because their eyes were heavy. They did not know what to say to him. 41 Returning the third time, he said to them, “Are you still sleeping and resting? Enough! The hour has come. Look, the Son of Man is betrayed into the hands of sinners. 42 Rise! Let us go! Here comes my betrayer!”
