Evangelicals Can Be Incredibly Strange

Awesome post.

 

Works are about as useful as getting into heaven as a crowbar or a credit card, according to the Bible.

 

"The Bible" had no original form. each part of the bible was originally written and had a form, but it was pieced together much later including several questionable texts and excluding several potentially relevant texts--dont forget the catholic bible has quite a few more books than the protestant bible. but i do agree that once the canon was decided on, it did not change throughout history.

most nonbelievers will cop out, without ever really studying or thinking about the subject, and say "jesus was a great teacher/philosopher/_______" to defuse your arguement and equate him with other great teachers. but why didnt he just come out and say i am god or the son of god? i mean, god said it all over the place in the hebrew bible, is there some reason the son of god couldnt do the same? its not like everyone is going to believe him just because he says that--making faith worthless.

 

did you read james? he wrote a letter that's probably in your bible. one verse reads--- "Faith without works is dead"

what do you think that means? i agree with you, that works are not part of the equation of salvation, but how do you interpret james letter?

 

Galatians 5:22 :

Your actions and decisions reflect your spirit- directly. You may say, well if I lead a happy life and do good things, who is to say that perhaps this is me expressing Jesus?

I answer you with I don't know. As Reb and I have stated, no one can say whether or not you have Christ's love other than yourself. However, not accepting the fact that Jesus is the Savior will, according to scripture, prevent you from going into Heaven. Good works will not cancel out bad works. Also, if Christ is truly in one's heart, I doubt they will be passive about their faith. It is such a passionate love that it exudes from every pore of one's being. All James was saying was that one to not act upon the love they have found means they have already lost it. (BTW, it's really hard to lose that which cannot be lost )

(This is a general hypothetical, not saying any of this to you directly. :thumb

 

Ok...works......The Bible tells us that "works" alone will not surfice as the mark of one who is saved. Anyone can do what appears to be the work of the Lord and not necessarily be right with the Lord. The Ten Commandments is a good rule of thumb to go by. But that alone will not atone for you sins. What James is saying is that IF you are saved, (and that is strictly between you and God. No other opinion matters.) you will be doing things for the Lord. In other words.... good works will not save you, but if you really are saved, you will have good works. You are still saved only through His grace and your faith.:thumb:

 

I never thought to check that mushroom... I'll keep you posted :wink:

 

Please clue me in on this, for except my backyard mushroom patch, I've searched far and wide. What proof that the bible exists in its original form is there?

How do you know what the original form is? The bible is a collection of letters, anecdotes, and the Tanakh. It didn't magically appear in a completed format. It was assembled over time. Some material was exluded. Some material was recreated. Some was plain made up to suit the current needs of the church. All of it has been translated across multiple languages.

So who compiled the bible of today, and what proof has shown that it is in the original state of its compilation?

I have read the bible front to back multiple times. I know more doctrine contained in the bible than most devout Christians. Don't assume that people are atheistic out of ignorance of the message. Quite the opposite, I'm an atheist because of the obvious flaws in the message.

 

I have read the bible front to back multiple times. I know more doctrine contained in the bible than most devout Christians. Don't assume that people are atheistic out of ignorance of the message. Quite the opposite, I'm an atheist because of the obvious flaws in the message.[/QUOTE]

Here I go again Bubba. :thumb: Thanks for taking my view points in stride without anger.

You are indeed knowledgeable about the Bible. There is no doubt in my mind that you have indeed read much. Unfortunately, you "seem" to have only read the words. It doesn't appear that your heart has opened up to receive the word of God. As much bitterness as it "seems" that you have may have kept your heart from being open to God's meanings in those verses you read. It would appear that you would have been reading only to look for discrepancies or something you could use to further your choice of not accepting.
I can read medical books. Some of it, I actually comprehend. But reading the words does not make me a physician. Experiencing and learning the actual process of evaluation, proper treatment, and surgical procedures would tend to make me better qualified to treat a patient. Experiencing the love of Christ is kind of the same.:thumb:

 

I have studied James a good bit. James is saying that someone who is saved, who claims to be a Christian, will go about his Father's work. He will care for the poor, the widowed, etc. He will not be ashamed to speak of his faith. He will share God's word with those who do not believe. He will gather with other Christians to worship the Lord and to gather strength from that socialization with other Christians, etc.

Basically, what James is saying is (in layman's terms, cause that is all I am), a man can stand and boast that he is saved by the grace of God through his own faith. If he really is, he will be doing things that promote the spread of God's love and trying to lead others to God. James is saying that one who claims this, yet does stuff like avoid gathering with God's people, staying home to do things of his own choice, not sharing God's word, and not helping others, is probably in need of some serious soul searching. Perhaps he was not serious as he should be when he accepted the Lord. Proclaiming to be saved and having no works shows hypocrisy. :thumb: