EPA's own research expert 'shut up' on climate change

Discussion in 'Free Speech Alley' started by XXL TideFan, Jun 25, 2009.

  1. red55

    red55 curmudgeon Staff Member

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    Help us out here. Where in the 1,200 page bill does it say this? Page numbers? or is this just fears that you read somewhere else?

    No, but it does need to be documented. Not every claim you hear from Limbaugh is true, you know. Many are paranoid fears. I don't know, but I'd like to know where it says in this document that you must pay 50% more to buy a house.

    If these provisions are real, then it's an example of what I try to explain to martin. Political bills often have both good features and horrible features, making it impossible to support or condemn them wholesale without addressing the individual issues within.

    This is why a line-item veto is important. Else politicians can add ridiculous amendments to basically sound bills just to insure that it will fail.

    A question: Why is cap-and-trade for carbon emissions bound to fail and cause industrial collapse when cap-and-trade for sulphur emissions did not? It actually worked as advertised.
     
  2. red55

    red55 curmudgeon Staff Member

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    Perhaps, if I were a representative, but I am not. I can pragmatically favor the cap-and-trade concept without wholesale approval of the poisonous amendments that tirk refers to. tirk is smarter than martin and is trying to raise a real issue that deserves a closer look, something that I have been imploring martin to do. I want to see this "California" amendment now and it could be a bill-killer. It still wouldn't stop my general approval of the cap-and-trade concept to reduce emissions at the lowest cost possible while respecting private industry decisions.

    Well, this is nothing new in Congress and a long-criticized problem. I thought there was a paperwork reduction act a decade or so ago and plans to use more concise and understandable language in these bills.
     
  3. martin

    martin Banned Forever

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    what is a more real issue than the recent bill i am discussing? i couldnt be more real or specific. i am not talking about vague theories or concepts. there is a real bill, right now, making its way through the government. what about that isnt "real"?

    when i am critical of red, i am trying to illustrate what a problem it is today that people are operating without any principles. some are simply scattershot and random, some are based on polls, whatever. too many people just dont have any logic behind their opinions. that is how we have gotten to where we are now. we let leaders dangle ideas in front of us and we just roll over and accept them if everyone else does. so we arejust being led around like idiots, putting no thought into anything.

    we are like those folks in that shirley jackson story, the lottery. we dont know what we want, so we look around at everyone else, and if enough other people are doing something, we do it, no matter what it is. because we want to fit in and not be the lunatic that has principles. we are puppets, controlled by each other. we mindlessly go with the flow. and red is a great example. he clearly cares more about polls than principles. he is a bandwagonner, and that means that before the wagon is rolling, he is lost.
     
  4. lsu-i-like

    lsu-i-like Playoff advocate

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    Your lust for controversy caused you to miss that bit?

    I'm not saying you don't have the right to continue along the path you've been down for quite some time, I'm simply saying it doesn't make for informative or pleasant reading. It is about on par with the 24 hour coverage we get from Fox and CNN, so if that is what you aspire to, you're about on target. Care to go on about the King of Pop for a while?

    That bit wasn't aimed at you, unless, of course, you voted McCain. Just meant to point out the hypocrisy.

    Depends on your point of view. I'd say the Republocrats, the faux conservatives, are pretty awful, giving the illusion of an alternative.

    I think he is getting more accomplished overseas than McCain would have.
     
    1 person likes this.
  5. martin

    martin Banned Forever

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    yes, but i am glad you keep tabs on it.

    next time dont read.

    next time dont watch. john stewart lied to you when he told you those networks have some responsibility to keep america informed.

    i was the one calling him a media created fraud. please pay attention.

    i did vote for mccain, after i voted for ron paul in the primary. now please pay attention. i am not saying mccain is not terrible. he certainly is. he an abomination. now how am i a hypocrite again? because i chose 98% horrible over 100% horrible?

    and relative to this specific issue, republicans are not horrible, they are spectacular. how would you have voted on this bill? against it? like the republicans? so you agree with the hypocrites?

    mostly true, but again, i dont think mccain would have sent us down the tax and spend path quite this much. do you think he would have? do you think he would favor this massive carbon boondoggle?

    specifically how?
     
  6. DRC

    DRC TigerNator

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    We dont know what McCain would have done but if I were to issue a report card on Obama's first 6 months in office, overseas image building (except for Israel) would be the only decent marks I would give him. The rest at this juncture are either fails or incomplete/unknown.
     
  7. tirk

    tirk im the lyrical jessie james

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    i dont listen to limbaugh.




    NBCC/CRA study estimates Waxman-Markey would reduce employment by 2.3 million jobs in 2015|GlobalWarming.org
     
  8. martin

    martin Banned Forever

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    i dont understand why the media keeps telling us that "overseas image building" is something of value.

    in real terms, nobody cares about image. it doesnt matter. people either do business with your or they dont. you are either the great satan or you arent.

    saying our image matters is like saying the yankees would have won more championships if people knew what a sweetheart steinbrenner actually was.
     
  9. red55

    red55 curmudgeon Staff Member

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    Wake up and pay attention, sir! tirk offered a real issue within the bill that was a possible fly in the ointment, if true. A detail. Something substantive. The things you run away from because you have an ideology that drives you, not a principle. And you are lazy.

    Although I think cap and trade is a good plan, it is entirely possible that the bill has enough faults to outweigh its virtues. Before supporting or rejecting it, pragmatic people want to know these things. What it will take to diminish support is for people to find issues within the bill that run counter to the main intention and shine a light on them. tirk made the effort to try to find such an issue.

    It may not fly if he can't document it, but he's challenging the bill the right way, not just waving his arms, crying "the sky is falling", and ridiculing everyone that dares disagree. He got more accomplished in one as-yet-unsubstantiated post than your entire body of mocks, jeers, and objections on "principle".
     
  10. red55

    red55 curmudgeon Staff Member

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    That wasn't the question, amigo. Did these statements come from the bill itself or some "other" source. It doesn't have to be Limbaugh, substitute the blogger/commentator/article of your choice.
     

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