Election 2020

Discussion in 'Free Speech Alley' started by Tiger in NC, Jul 26, 2020.

  1. onceanlsufan

    onceanlsufan Founding Member

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    So ... according to Dan Woofdin and CBS News ... Wind was no problem at all ....

    According to the DATA ... wind failed miserably.

    And that wind is "outperforming" itself is not relevant. When your expectation is nothing .. then anything is outperformance.
     
  2. onceanlsufan

    onceanlsufan Founding Member

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    Dude .. you are one to be talking about spin. You keep trying to spin everything about this case. You keep trying to convince us that wind is outperforming itself, as if that is a significant point .... you keep quoting officials, when we have the data right in front of us. You really spinning when you call the BBC a centrists site ... "Now that there's funny, I don't care who you are".

    ALL of the data show wind failed. Was it the largest contributor to the shortage?? ... well, no, of course not, but that doesn't take away the fact that 23% of the capacity dropped to 6% of the production (Wind), while 51% of the capacity carried 65% of the load (NG).
     
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  3. Bengal B

    Bengal B Founding Member

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    Why do you think I took the courses?
     
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  4. onceanlsufan

    onceanlsufan Founding Member

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    Here's some more data. ... I don't give a shists if TG thinks wind "outperformed itself" .. it failed miserably.
    [​IMG]
     
  5. TigersofGeauxld

    TigersofGeauxld Freshman

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    Everyone who has reviewed the data who is not from a right wing kook site has concluded wind was not the reason for the failure. Governor Abbot was forced to walk back his remarks about that when called on it.

    "I was asked a question on one TV show about renewable, and I responded to that question," Abbott said. "Every source of power that the state of Texas has has been compromised, whether it be renewable power such as wind or solar, but also, as I mentioned today, access to coal-generated power, access to gas-generated power, also have been compromised."

    https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/poli...s-gas-coal-failed-in-texas-freeze/ar-BB1dMHgd

    For all of 2020, 40 percent of Texas energy came from natural gas–fired plants, 23 percent from wind turbines, 18 percent from coal, and 11 percent from nuclear power, according to the Electric Reliability Council of Texas (ERCOT), which manages the Texas power grid. But in the winter, only about 7 percent of ERCOT's capacity was projected to come from wind sources.

    ERCOT itself says wind wasn't the primary cause, rather a fractional one, even a miniscule one. Texas gets up to 60% of it's power from wind during summer.

    In Texas, where 25 gigawatts of wind capacity feeds into the state’s main power grid, wind can sometimes produce as much as 60% of total electricity. But because wind power tends to ebb in the winter, the grid operator typically assumes that the turbines will generate only about 19% to 43% of their maximum output.

    Even so, wind generation has actually exceeded the grid operator’s daily forecast through the weekend. Solar power has been slightly below forecast Monday.

    “The performance of wind and solar is way down the list among the smaller factors in the disaster that we’re facing,” Daniel Cohan, associate professor of environmental engineering at Rice University, said in an interview. Blaming renewables for the blackouts “is really a red herring.”

    https://fortune.com/2021/02/16/texas-power-outage-frozen-wind-turbines/
     
    Last edited: Feb 22, 2021 at 7:43 PM
  6. onceanlsufan

    onceanlsufan Founding Member

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    [PRE NOTE ... Try READING this post instead of trying to argue with it, as it is loaded with data and shit you have not considered (and may not even understand), nor read in your liberal, pro-global warming, propaganda rags.]

    And .. here ya go again!! Making arguments to points not made. To get the real picture of what happened in Texas, you have to back up to Feb. 8th.
    [​IMG]

    As can be seen, it was on Feb 8th when the Wind Turbines froze up, dropping 60% of their output.

    "The sudden drop in temperature began Tuesday, Feb 8, and humidity quickly rose to 100%. No measurable precipitation occurred between February 8 and February 13, but condensation froze onto the wind turbine blades. The condensation generally concentrated on the leading edge of the blades, which direct the wind around the blade and produce the spin and the power. The ice on the blades, especially the ice on the leading edge, caused the blades to stop spinning." The Texas Energy Disaster – Watts Up With That? (and there is more at this site on this subject).

    [​IMG]

    NG plants were cranked up and made up the difference until Monday Feb 15th when several things happened to cause a fail, however, Wind NEVER recovered and continued to operate at a 60% deficit. NG also failed on the 15th when two things happened. 1) gas lines began to freeze up, and 2) .. WIND output dropped on Sunday Night triggering an automatic shutdown of NG plants (and Coal and Nuclear). (Notice the simultaneous drop in NG, Coal and Nuclear all at the same time). The wind failure, on Sunday Night, combined with higher demand resulted in the automatic shut down of coal, nuclear and some gas plants. This is not a failure of Coal and Nuclear, this is the safety mechanisms kicking in as they are designed. And while NG suffered a 30% drop, NG suffered nowhere near the catastrophic fail of WIND!! .... which dropped from 10,000 MW to practically ZERO.

    There is no better play by play of what happened than what is defined at Behind the Scenes of February's Texas Power Grid Disaster (sanangelolive.com)

    "watching the grid as Sunday night turned into early Monday morning, Feb. 15. At 1:55 a.m. Central Time, Sinn’s colleague, Ramon Bocanega, saw the frequency across the grid drop to 59.308 Hz. Maintaining the frequency within a range at around 60 Hz is imperative to keep all of the power generation plants online and supplying electricity. That 0.7 Hz drop was enough to cause pandemonium, as the power plants will automatically shut down when out of sync with the grid, Sinn explained."
    [​IMG]

    "Frozen wind turbines in west Texas may have been the catalyst for the frequency drop. Sinn theorizes that as the wind energy dropped overnight from Sunday to Monday, that reduced the load on the grid significantly. The operators of the grid have to catch these fluctuations in MW and shed load prior to the anticipated drop or the frequency can get out of sync, he said. That didn’t happen, according to what Sinn saw on his monitor."

    OOOHHH ... and here's a nice plug for your new buddy in the White House ... Ol Joe waved some emissions for a whopping 26 MW of power!! ... when Texas needed 20000-30000 MW. What a guy!!

    "The Biden administration’s Department of Energy gave ERCOT a waiver to exceed EPA pollution guidelines to run power plants at full capacity. Sinn said the waiver is disingenuous because the waiver appeared to only apply to two power plants that generate a paltry 13 MW each. Texas needs 20,000 to 30,000 MW more to creep out of this crisis, Sinn said."

    So .. in summary, from the DATA ... Feb 8th, freezing temps and high humidity caused the northern field to freeze up. NG was brought on line to make up the difference, and it did nicely!!! Wind continued to decline to less than 60% of its normal capacity. On SUNDAY Night, Feb 14th, the Wind Turbines, what little there was, decreased suddenly, and combined with the increased demand due to single digit weather, Frequency dropped below the critical threshold for a functional grid, and Coal was completely dropped off line, and a good portion of the NG plants were knocked off line as well, and even Nuclear threw some switches. This resulted in the OFT QUOTED ... 46,000 MW deficit, 18,000 MW deficit of wind and solar, and 28,000 deficit of everyone else.

    You can slice it anyway you want, but WIND started the whole cascade of events. If Texas had more Coal and Nuclear plants holding up a larger portion of the base load, this would have never happened.
     
    Last edited: Feb 22, 2021 at 10:15 PM
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  7. VHSTigerGrad

    VHSTigerGrad Freshman

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    Do you actually think he is going to comprehend that? I don't.
     
  8. onceanlsufan

    onceanlsufan Founding Member

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    It's pretty straight forward for those of us who know electricity.

    The Grid is maintained based on MW supply and demand at 60hz. If the demand outstrips supply, and causes the the frequency to drop below 60hz, then automatic trips will take the generators off line as the system will be out of sync. The failure of wind on Sunday Night, Feb 14th when Wind decreased by 5,000 MW, coupled with the higher demand for electricity due to single digit temps caused the trips to take a lot of the fossil fuel generating plants off line. Read the San Angelo Live link! ... the guy describes it nicely.

    SOOOO ... when shithead says "wind outperformed" itself, that is just stupid. I don't care if Wind provided 100% of Texas demand for the rest of the year, it is an intermittent supply, and the night of Feb 14th, that characteristic about it tripped the grid and took 46,000 MW of power off the grid, including what was left of the wind power.

    But you are probably right ... he won't understand it ... nor will most. But it is perfectly clear to me, and WIND was a colossal failure last week. Granted, the MANAGEMENT of the system is the first offender, as they knew what was coming and they didn't adjust. They could have ramped up the coal output the prior week, and should have ramped up the NG plants and taken the stupid wind generators off line until after the event. However, As EVERY article notes, if the Texas grid had more nuclear and coal base load, and used wind and NG for variable load, last week would not have happened.
     
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  9. TigersofGeauxld

    TigersofGeauxld Freshman

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    You went through all that effort just to validate what I posted earlier:
    So basically, working as intended.
     
  10. TigersofGeauxld

    TigersofGeauxld Freshman

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    As to your assertion that "WIND was a colossal failure last week", that's a Texas problem, not a wind problem.

    For insight, here is how Canada sees wind power...
    Wind turbines work hard in winter winds
    Winter is high season for Canadian wind energy production. As many farmers and fishermen take a much-needed rest and begin to repair equipment and prepare for the next season, wind farms are harvesting as much power as they can.

    While everyone settles in to their winter activities I wanted to give some insight into what wind turbines are doing during the short days ahead. Wind farm operators have gone to great lengths to conduct routine and unplanned maintenance throughout the slower summer months. The oil has been changed, bearings greased, blades repaired and major failures overhauled all in preparation for September. There are a few factors that boost the production of WTGs (wind turbine generators) as the season changes from summer to fall and on into winter. These are highlighted in this simplified equation for a wind turbine’s power potential.

    The power available for a wind turbine = ½ x air density x swept area of the blades x wind velocity3*

    So, the major players are air density, how big the diameter of the rotor is and how fast the wind is blowing. Since wind farms do not change the size of the blades on wind turbines from season to season I’ll focus on the other two, air density and wind velocity.

    Air density goes up as temperature goes down. Those cold air molecules get packed closer together as they lose energy. It’s not really noticeable in everyday life but sailors, kite boarders, windsurfers and pilots will take this into account when they hook up their gear and put it to work. At -1ᵒC and standard pressure and humidity the density of air is about 1.3 kg/m3. At 25ᵒC air density is around 1.2 kg/m3. Based on a typical 100-meter diameter rotor that’s going to cause about an 8 per cent increase in our power potential calculation above.

    If nothing else changed this density effect translates into thousands of additional MWhs of clean electricity produced in Canada each winter.

    Most modern wind turbines in Canada have a tower height of 80 meters. For the sake of our argument we’ll take data from a public database at a 10-meter height. In my home town of Windsor, Ontario the average wind speed at the airport in August is 3.6 m/s. In January its 5.7 m/s. Taking the output for these two wind speeds we see a power increase of almost 60 per cent!

    https://canwea.ca/omblog/wind-turbi...nter,are harvesting as much power as they can.
     

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