I swore this morning that I was done participating in these passionate but ultimately meaningless arguments. But...

Obamacare will kill the economy. Rates will continue to go up, for those paying, and by not choosing to collect taxes from those not participating (that selective enforcement of the law thang, I addressed just yesterday), the money for all the subsidies has to come from somewhere. Out of peoples, make that working peoples and tax paying peoples, pockets.

It to me is hilarious to hear the talking heads tell me how many people love Obama care. Of course it is the hand out, entitlement crowd that is now getting free insurance or at least massively subsidized insurance.

Maybe I run with an elitest crowd, well, I probably do, but no one i know personally has seen rates lowered, ALL are up a lot, and climbing, and not one of my friends has used the mandatory maternity benefits, that of course are paid for by all. Even TRICARE has gone up, and on a percentage basis, enormously!

I am 100% for government provided healthcare, but 100% against government mandated and subsidized insurance.

The latter is intellectual bull shit of the third degree, but the great, ignorant masses, with their hands out and their ballot in hand, don't know or care about the difference. Like my health care expert and genius, and multi-millionaire and great friend points out. Health costs are like a ballon. If you squeeze it here, it bulges there. The squeeze here is forcing people who we know are sick into an insurance pool. This alone is contrary to all principals of insurance, so cost skyrocket and the bulge is the greater bite whether through additional taxes or premiums, they are really the same thing at this point.

Obamacare = wealth transfer, but not from the wealthy.

For those that care, a model of this has occurred already with the results as expected.

At one point there were very high deductible, catastrophic plans. They only paid after the insured had paid a lot of money, but they did not cost squat, since the risk to the insurer was minimal.

Over time, people with known health conditions migrated to the catastrophic plans. with the influx of sick people, the insurance companies were paying more and more, much more than had been predicted by the actuaries.

What happened? Premiums were raised and paid by everyone in the plans. The folks that chose the high deductible, catastrophic plans for real insurance, mitigating against unexpected but possible risk, were soon paying ultra high premiums, too.

They left, and so only the very sick were in the pool, the plans collapsed. What will happen with Obamacare is that the plans will not collapse, but rates will go up and up and up and up.

You Louisiana boys may be able to relate from a homeowners insurance perspective. Say all homeowners have a single mandated policy, not a policy, plus flood, plus wind and hail, if needed. With Obamacare, the fools living below sea level by the shakiest dikes have to now be covered. You can be assured premiums are going up for every one, since the risk presented by these homeowners, based on their perilous locations, is enormous. Yeah, that will work. Think about that.

I only know of one person who has benefited from Obamacare. He is a guy in his 30's who has diabetes and has to inject insulin every day so he was unable to buy insurance before ACA. He has a good income and can afford insurance but no company would sell it to him due to his pre existing health issues.

Boys, Hate to say it, and I really hate to say I told you so, but here is a snippet from Yesterday's (7/3/15) NY Times:

WASHINGTON — Health insurance companies around the country are seeking rate increases of 20 percent to 40 percent or more, saying their new customers under the Affordable Care Actturned out to be sicker than expected. Federal officials say they are determined to see that the requests are scaled back.

Blue Cross and Blue Shield plans — market leaders in many states — are seeking rate increases that average 23 percent in Illinois, 25 percent in North Carolina, 31 percent in Oklahoma, 36 percent in Tennessee and 54 percent in Minnesota, according to documents posted online by the federal government and state insurance commissioners and interviews with insurance executives.

The Oregon insurance commissioner, Laura N. Cali, has just approved 2016 rate increases for companies that cover more than 220,000 people. Moda Health Plan, which has the largest enrollment in the state, received a 25 percent increase, and the second-largest plan, LifeWise, received a 33 percent increase.........

If you look at the article, you will be dumbfounded by what Daddy O said in response.

Not that I am that smart, just that anyone with a pittance of an inkling (that is not a lot) about insurance knows this is where we were headed! Remember the balloon.

This evidence has been piling up for months and @red55 , @Tiger in NC the cheerleaders for it ignore the facts and crow that it is wonderful and cite all the features that led to these cost increases as being wonderful. What they were is bribes to the masses. The idea of no previous conditions, keeping children on plans till 26 and others is attractive and easy to like. However they have a cost consequence that are showing up and the addition of more insured isn't making up for the increased costs generated. In addition many of those added to the insurance rolls are generally the sickest and weakest rather than the healthy that were promised.
As I've said from the beginning this is a scam and day by day the evidence piles up to prove it.

Exactly, and the biggest hits aren't coming for another 2 years. This was a turd in a paper sack and now it's time to open it.

Oh look, it's still shit!

Obamacare imposes specific loss ratios for small group plans, 80%, and large plans, 85%. Since insurance is all about risk, there is less risk in bigger groups since the risk is spread across a larger population. Hence the insurers take is less with large groups since the risk is less.

Loss ratio is computed on the basis of the total plan and is the amount paid in claims divided by total premium.


If the insurance companies are asking for x% increases, you can go to the bank that they have the claims experience to justify the requested increase. Talk of having the state insurance commissioners walking those increases back is political bull shit.

You are getting senile. You quoted me on things I never said. Those were posts by @HalloweenRun or @Winston1 Maybe you should see an Obamacare doctor.