Discussion: Is the Holy Roman Catholic Church the only true Christian church?

I hate to be one of those that quote the Bible (maybe because I'm so bad at it) but it goes something like this......"don't throw pearls before swine"

and that's all that is going on here, brothers.....pearls before swine.
:shock:

 

You never know who the Word will reach, perhaps a couple lurkers who never post or post infrequently, perhaps even someone who is adamantly oppossed to Christianity. It's not your job to convert anybody that is all up to God, it is only your job to present the word.

Also the verse you were looking for is

 

Karl Keating is not a biblical writer. he was not one of the Apostles, nor does his opinion validate ANY of the questions I posed to you.

there is no mention of infant baptism you are INFERING it. You assume it happened. You can't prove it. ADVICE, where the bible is silent therefore ye should be silent. All these years and the catholic church cant do this.

and what about the Inquisition??? the pope ordered it. The infallable one. You ever read history? You know that's where they converted Spain to catholicism. A dang good job they did too, hard to find a Spainard who isn't Catholic. I guess if they were stretching you on the rack and saying now do you believe?
I dare say you would. I just can't imagine God's champion on earth ordering the torture of Pagans to convert them. Especially when the Great commision in Markc 16:16 says go ye into all the world and preach the gospel. How do you get torture from this? Face it the Catholic church is much like the Jews/Pharisees that Christ Preached about. Steeped in tradition and the mosiac law but dead to the word.

Peter being the "rock" of the church has NOTHING to do with Catholicism. You are going from rock, right to pope. You wrote a book about it and proved NOTHING.
Peter being the rock the church was built on has more to do with his speech given on the day of pentacost. He formally started the church, they were called CHRISTIANS, not catholics. SEE ACTS cptr 2. ARE YOU looking this stuff up???????

If they were catholics, Paul's letters would have adressed them as such, since he wrote them later, some of them from prison. He did not make any mention of Catholics, the pope, the papacy, a Nun, two alter boys or a camel jockey. He called them CHRISTIANS. I think you see the first letter capital "C" and you just run with it.
These folks you are quoting are not inspired. They are catholics, maybe good preachers but thats as far as it goes. Martin Luther was sharper, at least he could tell the truth.

And where do you get Fundamentalist? is everyone else a Fundamentalist?
and if they are, what does fundamentalist mean? what's the root word? Fundamental...... seems to me they would be closer to the original church than Catholicism. Is this your term for Restoration Religions? Simply becuase they worship the way the New testament Christians did? What about Martin Luther? you know the guy who the Catholic Church had murdered? yeah him, the one the Pope didn't like, the heretic. The guy who started Protestants, He nailed 20 points to the Catholic church door that he didnt agree with. Why didn't he agree? BECAUSE he started really READING the Bible and noticed that the Catholic church wasn't exactly following original church doctrine. Yeah some of the same stuff Ive stated here. Infant baptism, etc...

He saw it WAY back then. give the guy credit for reading, something the Catholic clergy has frowned on for years! ( remember I came from catholicism ) The bible simply wasn't for the oridinaty masses, they might discover the truth. Martin Luther Protested because his good concience wouldn't let him carry on the hypocricy. Little did he know he would be labled a Heretic and forced into exile and later murdered for spreading the REAL GOSPEL. He actually thought the Papacy and clergy would listen and progress towards the truth. Knowledge is truth. The early Catholic church opressed truth because people were just tooo dumb, we'll tell them who is saved.... good grief, the truth was bound to emerge.

So what were they protecting? Politics and power. At one time the Papacy employed a small Army and was a politcal power in Europe. man ruined Catholicism but truthfully it was doomed to begin with. Steeped in tradition,something warned about in the bible and definately using strong arm tactics to convert the lost. Why bother preaching the gospel when we can just torture the subject?

Read some Roman History while you're at it. Read about the Emporer Constantine's conversion. Read about the PERSECUTION of Christians in the early church. There weren't any Nuns running around in habits back then. where was the Pope then? Was he fallable then? So they added all this tradition later right>? what was it the Lord Jesus warned the Pharisees about tradition?

I'd come closer to believing martin's wizard thing than believing the pope is infallable. It's simply not true, the bible clearly states there was only ONe sinless man. see Romans, for all have sinned and fall short of the Glory of God.

Does he instantly become infallable when the white smoke goes up?
Why does he die if he is infallable? Why doesn't he just ascend into heaven?

IF the LORD had wanted a CATHOLIC church, he would have outlined it in the bible, instead it IS outlined in the bible through EXAMPLE of how the church should conduct itself. All the doctrine is in there. It says ZILCH about erecting statues of Mary and prayer to her. ZERO.

It also clearly states in the bible that EVERYONE that is saved is a SAINT, not just those the POPE deems worthy. So they VOTE on who is a Saint?
Again MAN CANNOT VOTE anyone into salvation. the Lord adds them through the blood of jesus. No one voted on it, that's stupid.

ACTS 2:47
47Praising God, and having favour with all the people. And the Lord added to the church daily such as should be saved.
and BTW there is NO PERGATORY..... this place is NOT mentioned in the bible. You don't need to "buy" prayers from the Catholic church to help pray for a loved one to get out of Pergatory. this is a man made non inspired place, while the bible was written by inspired men.

Please dont list where Karl what's his name invented it. I could care less, this moron did not write any of the new or old testament. He is catholic that pretty much sums it up.

Man I'm sorry I just cant see how you are believing this stuff. BUT good luck to you and I'm sorry if I seemed to belittle Catholicism, I just don't see it as a very accurate or appointed religion, to me it's no different than any other sect and it certainly wasn't first or ordained. I've proven that, whether you chose to see it or not.

If I were you I'd start asking these people feeding you this bull some serious biblical based questions. Ask them to quote scripture not some monk from the vatican.

Good day.

 

crazy practice, for it is written that it is appointed once for a man to die and after that the judgement. What you have done while alive is what you'll be judged for. I never could figure out why people ray for dead folks, they're dead, they have sealed their fate, right or wrong. Their actions ended when they died, that's why it's so important to be saved BEFORE YOU DIE? DUH!

and this pergatory place? what is it? who invented it? Did John see it in Revalations? No so who came up with it? Catholics that's who, and why??
So you could pay money to have a Preist pay for dead loved ones so that the judgement would be easier on them. Ok yeah right good grief charlie Brown I have some tundra land to sell you in Mexico too. :dis:

AGREED?

 

Tsk, tsk, tsk, the bitter atheist finally comes out. :dis:

 

Ok who are these people? Catholic preachers?
Cyril of Jerusalem
Augustine
Ambrose of Milan
Gregory of Nyssa
Hermas
Jerome

Did they appear in the bible? How many bibles do you people have? Let me ask you this, if I convert back to Catholicism and write something that seems enlightened would the Pope put a rubber stamp on it? Who rubber stamped these peole's writings?

You might as well be reading Peter Benchley, these people are not inspired. I doubt anone there is even kin to Moses. heck they aren't even close to being right let alone inspired.

I notice the only book you can quote is Psalms, which David Wrote.

EDIT: Ok you did mention Rev. too but it wasn't quoted in contect, the verse you quoted has nothing to do with intercessory prayer. Intercessory Prayer is done by Saints, true..... people who are saved, not pope appointed. Added by the Lord, not the vote of men.

Who are all these other chaps? What makes them authorities? Could you just use the bible? Why cant the catholic church just use the bible? Everyone else does. Why add to it>? why add doctrine to the bible where it doesn't belong? Why complicat it? Everything you need for Salvation is in the Bible, not the book of hermas????? who was hermas?

Again you don't know what the word Saint means. Saints are those that dwell in Christ. Dead or Alive. Saints are saved folks, I don't know how to 'splain it to you any other way.

Here is the verse you quote IN CONTEXT


1And when he had opened the seventh seal, there was silence in heaven about the space of half an hour.

2And I saw the seven angels which stood before God; and to them were given seven trumpets.

3And another angel came and stood at the altar, having a golden censer; and there was given unto him much incense, that he should offer it with the prayers of all saints upon the golden altar which was before the throne.

4And the smoke of the incense, which came with the prayers of the saints, ascended up before God out of the angel's hand.

5And the angel took the censer, and filled it with fire of the altar, and cast it into the earth: and there were voices, and thunderings, and lightnings, and an earthquake.

6And the seven angels which had the seven trumpets prepared themselves to sound.

The saints prayed, it doesn't say anywhere in the 3rd verse what they prayed for, they could have been prayers of praise. You have no way of knowing that they were intercessory prayers. They could have been praying for rain for all you know. All that other stuff you write is your interpretation of Revelation. You assumed they are praying for what you want them to be praying for. Again. Dont ADD to the bible.

 

I won't answer most of your post because you don't know very much and seem content to make it up. Ala the Catholic Church murdering Martin Luthor. Did you make that up or did your preacher tell you that whopper?

If you dont beleive in the teaching authority of the Church fine. If you feel that a word like pope, Catholic, purgatory must appear in the Bible to have validity its fine by me. But there is no need to make things up. You have shown extreme ignorance in all your posts.

If you don't know who the early Christian writers were that's fine too. But I don't know how you can claim to know how early Christians practiced their faith when you don't even know who the leaders of the early Church were.

Before you bash a religion you should at least have some understanging of it.
You have absolutely zero understanding of Catholism and very little understanding of history.

The Bible is not the soul rule of faith. If you could show me even one verse where it makes that prononcement I would convert instantaneously and without hesitation.

Until then I'm a Pope loving, Mary Worshipping, bead counting, candle lighting, genuflecting, eavesdropping, hat wearing, saint craving, idol worshipping, tabernacle adoring, crucifix wearing, bone throwing, confession taking, robe wearing, cake baking, water dippering Catholic.

 

quit doing that, it makes me think of lex luthor when i am trying to learn.

 

Concering your belief that the Bible is not the sole rule of faith:

Jesus uses Scripture to refute Satan when he is tempted in the wilderness. ( see Matt. chapter 4)

Jesus uses Scripture in his teachings not tradition:

Matthew
4:4[Deut. 8:3]; 4:6[Psalm 91:11,12]; 4:7[Deut. 6:16]; 4:10[Deut. 6:13]; 5:27[ Ex 20:14; Deut 5:18]; 5:31[Deut. 24:1]; 5:38[Exodus 21:24; Lev. 24:20; Deut. 19:21]; 5:43 [Lev. 19:18]; 13:13-15[Isaiah 6:9,10 ]; 21:42[Psalm 118:22,23]; 22:43-44[Psalm 110:1]; 23:37[Ps 17:8; 36:7; 57:1; 61:4; 63:7; 91:4]; 24:29[Isaiah 13:10; 34:4]; 26:31[Zech. 13:7];

Mark
4:12 [Isaiah 6:9,10 ]; 7:7[Isaiah 29:13]; 7:10[Exodus 20:12; 21:17[Deut. 5:16; Lev. 20:9]; 9:48[Isaiah 66:24]; 11:15-17[Isaiah 56:7;Jer. 7:11]; 12:9-10[ Psalm 118:22,23]; 12:35-36[Psalm 110:1]; 13:23-25[Isaiah 13:10; 34:4]; 14:27[Zech. 13:7];

Luke
4:14-21[Isaiah 61:1,2]; 8:9-10[Isaiah 6:9]; 20:17 [Psalm 118:22]; 20:42-43[Psalm 110:1]; 23:28-30[Hosea 10:8];

John
8:58[Exodus 3:14]


What did Jesus open the apostles minds to understand after He rose from the dead? Scripture!( see Luke 24:44-48)

Some tradition is fine as long as it checks out scripturally. However according to 2 Timothy, Scripture is all that is needed to be completly and thoroughly equipped for all good work.

edit: I don't want it to seem like I hate Catholics or something, I think many of them are truly saved just like many protestants aren't saved. Denomination doesn't matter as long as you hold fast to the Word of God and Confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart God raised him from the dead.[Rom 10:9-10]

 

actually , you're right they didn't kill him he died of natural causes, they just exiled him and he had to hide from the church in fear of his life.

there is no reason to believe in the catholic church's authority because it was never authorized. It would have to be ordained in the bible and it wasn't, a church cant authorize itself then pronounce all it's teachings official. the church isnt catholic its all the christians, schools over you are drinking some serious brainwashed koolaid. bye