Discussion: Is the Holy Roman Catholic Church the only true Christian church?

What is the Catholic reason for praying to Mary and the Saints? I'm generally curious about this because none of my Catholic friends have been able to answer me. I won't say anything about that topic other than I think one just needs to pray to Jesus because he is our intermediary but I will be interested in reading whatever explaination yall give.

 

The answer is that the Catholics have instituted the practice of asking the saints to intercede with God on their behalf through recited exhortations. According to them, this is not prayer per se, just requests for intercession.

See the Catholic apology for the accusations of vain repetitions of prayer contained here.

 

First here is a link you may find helpful.

http://www.catholic.com/library/Praying_to_the_Saints.asp
I'm sorry that your Catholic friends can't answer that question it is very simple.

You are right in saying that Christ our only mediator. Their is no question on that. He is not our only intercessor though. We have tons of those. If you ask me to pray for your family I am intercessing on your family's behalf. The same is true when I pray for a saint's intercession. The Bible explicitly tells us to pray for one another. It is what good Christains do.

Fundamentalists often challenge the Catholic practice of asking saints and angels to pray on our behalf. But the Bible directs us to invoke those in heaven and ask them to pray with us.

In Psalm 103 we pray, "Bless the Lord, O you his angels, you mighty ones who do his word, hearkening to the voice of his word! Bless the Lord, all his hosts, his ministers that do his will!" (Ps. 103:20–21). And in the opening verses of Psalms 148 we pray, "Praise the Lord! Praise the Lord from the heavens, praise him in the heights! Praise him, all his angels, praise him, all his host!"

Not only do those in heaven pray with us, they also pray for us. In the book of Revelation, John sees that "the twenty-four elders [the leaders of the people of God in heaven] fell down before the Lamb, each holding a harp, and with golden bowls full of incense, which are the prayers of the saints" (Rev. 5:8). Thus the saints in heaven offer to God the prayers of the saints on earth.

Angels do the same thing: "[An] angel came and stood at the altar [in heaven] with a golden censer; and he was given much incense to mingle with the prayers of all the saints upon the golden altar before the throne; and the smoke of the incense rose with the prayers of the saints from the hand of the angel before God" (Rev. 8:3–4).

Jesus himself warned us not to offend small children, because their guardian angels have guaranteed intercessory access to the Father: "See that you do not despise one of these little ones; for I tell you that in heaven their angels always see the face of my Father who is in heaven" (Matt. 18:10).

Because he is the only God-man and the Mediator of the New Covenant, Jesus is the only mediator between man and God (1 Tim. 2:5), but this in no way means we cannot or should not ask our fellow Christians to pray with us and for us (1 Tim. 2:1–4). In particular, we should ask the intercession of those Christians in heaven, who have already had their sanctification completed, for "[t]he prayer of a righteous man has great power in its effects" (Jas. 5:16).

As the following passages show, the early Church Fathers not only clearly recognized the biblical teaching that those in heaven can and do intercede for us, but they also applied this teaching in their own daily prayer life.


Hermas
"[The Shepherd said:] ‘But those who are weak and slothful in prayer, hesitate to ask anything from the Lord; but the Lord is full of compassion, and gives without fail to all who ask him. But you, [Hermas,] having been strengthened by the holy angel [you saw], and having obtained from him such intercession, and not being slothful, why do not you ask of the Lord understanding, and receive it from him?’" (The Shepherd 3:5:4 [A.D. 80]).

Clement of Alexandria
"In this way is he [the true Christian] always pure for prayer. He also prays in the society of angels, as being already of angelic rank, and he is never out of their holy keeping; and though he pray alone, he has the choir of the saints standing with him [in prayer]" (Miscellanies 7:12 [A.D. 208]).

Origen
"But not the high priest [Christ] alone prays for those who pray sincerely, but also the angels . . . as also the souls of the saints who have already fallen asleep" (Prayer 11 [A.D. 233]).


Cyprian of Carthage
"Let us remember one another in concord and unanimity. Let us on both sides [of death] always pray for one another. Let us relieve burdens and afflictions by mutual love, that if one of us, by the swiftness of divine condescension, shall go hence first, our love may continue in the presence of the Lord, and our prayers for our brethren and sisters not cease in the presence of the Father’s mercy" (Letters 56[60]:5 [A.D. 253]).

Anonymous
"Atticus, sleep in peace, secure in your safety, and pray anxiously for our sins" (funerary inscription near St. Sabina’s in Rome [A.D. 300]).

"Pray for your parents, Matronata Matrona. She lived one year, fifty-two days" (ibid.).

"Mother of God, [listen to] my petitions; do not disregard us in adversity, but rescue us from danger" (Rylands Papyrus 3 [A.D. 350]).

Methodius
"Hail to you for ever, Virgin Mother of God, our unceasing joy, for to you do I turn again. You are the beginning of our feast; you are its middle and end; the pearl of great price that belongs to the kingdom; the fat of every victim, the living altar of the Bread of Life [Jesus]. Hail, you treasure of the love of God. Hail, you fount of the Son’s love for man. . . . You gleamed, sweet gift-bestowing Mother, with the light of the sun; you gleamed with the insupportable fires of a most fervent charity, bringing forth in the end that which was conceived of you . . . making manifest the mystery hidden and unspeakable, the invisible Son of the Father—the Prince of Peace, who in a marvelous manner showed himself as less than all littleness" (Oration on Simeon and Anna 14 [A.D. 305]).

"Therefore, we pray [ask] you, the most excellent among women, who glories in the confidence of your maternal honors, that you would unceasingly keep us in remembrance. O holy Mother of God, remember us, I say, who make our boast in you, and who in august hymns celebrate the memory, which will ever live, and never fade away" (ibid.).

"And you also, O honored and venerable Simeon, you earliest host of our holy religion, and teacher of the resurrection of the faithful, do be our patron and advocate with that Savior God, whom you were deemed worthy to receive into your arms. We, together with you, sing our praises to Christ, who has the power of life and death, saying, ‘You are the true Light, proceeding from the true Light; the true God, begotten of the true God’" (ibid.).


Cyril of Jerusalem
"Then [during the Eucharistic prayer] we make mention also of those who have already fallen asleep: first, the patriarchs, prophets, apostles, and martyrs, that through their prayers and supplications God would receive our petition . . . " (Catechetical Lectures 23:9 [A.D. 350]).

Hilary of Poitiers
"To those who wish to stand [in God’s grace], neither the guardianship of saints nor the defenses of angels are wanting" (Commentary on the Psalms 124:5:6 [A.D. 365]).

Ephraim the Syrian
"You victorious martyrs who endured torments gladly for the sake of the God and Savior, you who have boldness of speech toward the Lord himself, you saints, intercede for us who are timid and sinful men, full of sloth, that the grace of Christ may come upon us, and enlighten the hearts of all of us so that we may love him" (Commentary on Mark [A.D. 370]).

"Remember me, you heirs of God, you brethren of Christ; supplicate the Savior earnestly for me, that I may be freed through Christ from him that fights against me day by day" (The Fear at the End of Life [A.D. 370]).


The Liturgy of St. Basil
"By the command of your only-begotten Son we communicate with the memory of your saints . . . by whose prayers and supplications have mercy upon us all, and deliver us for the sake of your holy name" (Liturgy of St. Basil [A.D. 373]).


Pectorius
"Aschandius, my father, dearly beloved of my heart, with my sweet mother and my brethren, remember your Pectorius in the peace of the Fish [Christ]" (Epitaph of Pectorius [A.D. 375]).


Gregory of Nazianz
"May you [Cyprian] look down from above propitiously upon us, and guide our word and life; and shepherd this sacred flock . . . gladden the Holy Trinity, before which you stand" (Orations 17[24] [A.D. 380]).

"Yes, I am well assured that [my father’s] intercession is of more avail now than was his instruction in former days, since he is closer to God, now that he has shaken off his bodily fetters, and freed his mind from the clay that obscured it, and holds conversation naked with the nakedness of the prime and purest mind . . . " (ibid., 18:4).


Gregory of Nyssa
"[Ephraim], you who are standing at the divine altar [in heaven] . . . bear us all in remembrance, petitioning for us the remission of sins, and the fruition of an everlasting kingdom" (Sermon on Ephraim the Syrian [A.D. 380]).


John Chrysostom
"He that wears the purple [i.e., a royal man] . . . stands begging of the saints to be his patrons with God, and he that wears a diadem begs the tentmaker [Paul] and the fisherman [Peter] as patrons, even though they be dead" (Homilies on Second Corinthians 26 [A.D. 392]).

"When you perceive that God is chastening you, fly not to his enemies . . . but to his friends, the martyrs, the saints, and those who were pleasing to him, and who have great power [in God]" (Orations 8:6 [A.D. 396]).


Ambrose of Milan
"May Peter, who wept so efficaciously for himself, weep for us and turn towards us Christ’s benign countenance" (The Six Days Work 5:25:90 [A.D. 393]).


Jerome
"You say in your book that while we live we are able to pray for each other, but afterwards when we have died, the prayer of no person for another can be heard. . . . But if the apostles and martyrs while still in the body can pray for others, at a time when they ought still be solicitous about themselves, how much more will they do so after their crowns, victories, and triumphs?" (Against Vigilantius 6 [A.D. 406]).


Augustine
"A Christian people celebrates together in religious solemnity the memorials of the martyrs, both to encourage their being imitated and so that it can share in their merits and be aided by their prayers" (Against Faustus the Manichean [A.D. 400]).

"There is an ecclesiastical discipline, as the faithful know, when the names of the martyrs are read aloud in that place at the altar of God, where prayer is not offered for them. Prayer, however, is offered for the dead who are remembered. For it is wrong to pray for a martyr, to whose prayers we ought ourselves be commended" (Sermons 159:1 [A.D. 411]).

"At the Lord’s table we do not commemorate martyrs in the same way that we do others who rest in peace so as to pray for them, but rather that they may pray for us that we may follow in their footsteps" (Homilies on John 84 [A.D. 416]).

 

Please link to where you are pasting from. It gives the wrong impression that you are coming up with these texts. http://www.catholic.com/library/Infant_Baptism.asp is where you pasted that from.

I do not necessarily view the differences between Fundamentalists and Catholics view of infant baptism to be the deal breaker in terms of why I'm not Catholic. However, I tend to take the Biblical view of baptism as it should apply to adults who are capable of professing faith.

I tend to believe in a loving God who, in His sovereignty, sees the young children that have not the capability to commit either actual sin or profess faith, and in the case of a death of such a child, takes said child straight up into His arms.

The Church uses the verse "Suffer the little children to come unto me" and
"Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God" to justify the doctrine of infant baptism. They also use:

​

 

Actually I pasted it from an email news letter I subscribe to that is authored by Karl Keating, but yes it is the same as the tract on the Catholic Answers site. It is public domain and does not need to be linked or quoted. I will do so in the future though.

 

In short, you're an equal opportunity offender. :hihi: :hihi: :hihi:

 

if aliens came to earth and i was showing them around, i would hope they didnt know about people like you guys, because i would be embarassed to associated with this kind of stone age stupidity. you guys are acting like a sub-human race of mystical cavemen, arguing which form of sorcery is real.

 

Oh whatever martin! For all you know, that's the way it really is on "the other side," and you don't know for sure that ain't the way it is any more than we know for 100% certainty that it is. Till we all die and find out for sure, who are you to say you have all the answers and know what beliefs are valid or invalid, right or wrong.

What if the aliens that come to Earth also believe in a monotheistic faith, that is eerily similar to Christianity? What then? Will you be so insulting to them, and touch off the first inter-stellar war? Then YOU would be responsible for the destruction of the human race. Quite a burden to carry into the afterlife.

 

Then don't associate with us. Nobody's forcing you to.

 

you are the ones with the answers, silly. i have no answers. i am not the one making up a ridiculous system of sorcery, you are. understand that?

which one of us is making all sorts of wild claims about the universe? which one of us, when faced with difficult to answer questions, resorts to magic?

you are the one who claims to have the answers, who has the ancient book of legends, and even though there are many, yours curiously happens to be the right one. you are a non believer in all the other religions, the same way i am a non-believer in yours. i could make the a goofy argument that you are a know-it-all for shunning astrology or hinduism for christianity. you deny all religions in the history of the world except one. i only go one further than you.

you, religious people are the ones, when faced with a difficult situation, will revert back to the stone age tactic of praying to the invisible sky-man.

you mean they worship a different jesus who is from their planet? would that be the same jesus who died for our sins here? does god secretly have another son from planet blorx who also nonsensically comitted suicide to forgive the sins of the aliens?

i would hope that aliens have a thing called "science" where they dont believe things based on "faith", because they realize that is 100% stupid.

the fact is most of you are too cowardly to accept the world as it is. you cant break from the indoctrination of society. if we lived in a muslim country, you would be stupidly screaming allah ackbar and bowing to mecca. you despise reason.