Discussion: Is the Holy Roman Catholic Church the only true Christian church?

EXACTLY! supa has YET to say ANYTHING about the spainish inquisition. The Grand Inquisitors were ordered by the Pope. :dis:

 

Here again you choose to make things up when you have no knowledge of history.


I'll start by saying the Spanish Inquisition was not ordered by the Pope. It was orderd by King Ferdinand and Queen Isabella. The Pope appointed the Grand Inquisitor.

In its 331 year history 880 people were put to death. The Church courts did not adminsiter sentences. Those found guilty in Church courts were turned over to state courts for sentencing.

There is ample evidence of peoplespeaking heresy in Spanish courts when on trial so they would be tried in the much more lenient courts of the Church.

In all about 3000 people were put to death in the inquisitions that occured in Spain, France, and Italy. From 1450-1700.

That is 3000 to many, but it pales in comparison to the 100000 witches burned in Germany during that time or to the 72000 Irish Catholics that were killed by the Tudors in England.

In truth the churches role in the inquisition especially the Spanish Inquisition was very limited. Most Inquistors were not members of the clergy. The Inquisitions used the Church so political rulers could stamp out dissent in their countries.

As far as the abuses of the Spanish Inquisition are concerned, the Catholic Church is not responsible for them. Those abuses were committed, with a few exceptions, by the civil power, and they were condemned by Popes Leo X, Paul III, Paul IV, and Sixtus IV who reigned during that period of history.

The Catholic Church, while infallible on matters of faith and morals, does not claim to be immune from acts of abuse of power its members. Such an abuse on the part of officials of the Church caused Pope Leo X to excommunicate the Catholic tribunal at Toledo, and to have the witnesses who appeared before its inquisitorial trial arrested for perjury.

 

Care to remove your foot from your mouth before I post this?

More than 90 apologies
Pope leaves Church a Theology of Apology
By David Gibson
c. 2005 Religion News Service.


Pope John Paul II launched an unprecedented “examination of conscience,” culminating in a sweeping mea culpa on the first Sunday in the first Lent of Christianity’s third millennium.

“In this year of mercy the Church, strong in the holiness which she receives from her Lord, should kneel before God and implore forgiveness for the past and present sins of her sons and daughters,” John Paul declared at a Mass in St. Peter’s Basilica on March 12, 2000. “Let us forgive and ask forgiveness!”

In the wake of John Paul’s death, April 2, what he called a “purification of memory,” or what might be called a “theology of apology,” may also stand as one of the most important, and least-recognized, legacies that he leaves behind.

Detailed list of offenses
More than a generic statement of regret, John Paul’s millennium sermon referred specifically to the violence of holy wars among Christians and the Inquisition against non-believers, and, as if to ensure his message would not be lost on future generations, he had several cardinals—many of them considered potential successors—read more detailed indictments of Catholic sins.

You can read the rest here if you so choose.

http://www.catholicvoiceoakland.org/inthisissue14.htm

 

I don't feel that way at all. Nor do any other Catholics I know. If you know any that specifically feel that way, then they're wrong, and out of step with what the Church teaches.

On the other hand, I can specifically recall Jimmy Swaggart having to apologize for preaching that Catholics were going to hell because of their faith.

Well, as worked up as you're getting, you sure could have fooled me.

And I respectfully disagree. There are about a billion Catholics worldwide who would also disagree. Just your saying it's wrong doesn't make it so, JS.

Just how much do you really know about Catholicism? Be honest.

 

Hey G this is from your link which I did read.

Opposition from cardinals
Naturally, many groups and critics viewed the pope’s apologies as incomplete or a case of “too little, too late.” The irony was that some of John Paul’s toughest opposition came from within the Church hierarchy.
Ok in the section you quoted me on I said that Catholics would not admit when they were wrong, and by your posting I am wrong to a point. When the Pope did this he did this on his own. I never said that the Pope was a bad man, as a matter of fact I thought he did alot for the world. But I have to wonder though in the past few years in the failing of his health how many decisions that were made were his to make and not made for him.

So while I might have been wrong, at the same time I was right. Also throughout that article i did not see a mention of the slave trade or the Holocost.

 

The reason there was no mention of the Slave Trade is becasue the Church always oppised the slave trade. Pope's spoke out about it constantly from the age of exploration into the 1890s.

As to the Holocaust
Pius XII is often critisized for not publically denouncing Nazisim. He held that this would lead to more death. He instead used quiet actions. The Vatican forged hundreds of thousands of Baptism certificates so Jews could immigrate to the US and Britain.

you may want to read more here http://www.catholic.com/library/how_plus_xii_protected_jews.asp

or here
http://www.catholic.com/thisrock/2001/0101fea1.asp

The Chief Rabbi of Jerusalem, Isaac Herzog, sent the Pope a personal message of thanks on February 28, 1944, in which he said: "The people of Israel will never forget what His Holiness (Pius XII) and his illustrious delegates, inspired by the eternal principles of religion which form the very foundations of true civilization, are doing for us unfortunate brothers and sisters in the most tragic hour of our history, which is living proof of divine Providence in this world."

And to your point the Catholic Church has never been wrong on a matter of faith and morals. That does not mean members of the Church from laity to the Popes have not done horrible things. Leaders of the Church have many times not practiced what tehy preached. This in no way diminishes the teaching authority of the Church. If your first grade teacer says that 2+2 = 4 and then proceeds to rob a bank the act of robbing the bank did not make 2+2 not = 4. The same is true of the Church.

 

About the slave trade, it wasn't just catholics who were involved in slavery. It's not like many protestant leaders were speaking out against slavery. You can't blame the catholics for the slave trade.

 

you cant blame any person or organization today for things done a long time ago. even if catholicism used to be on the record as completely in favor of slavery. all that matters is now. my family had tons of slaves, so what. i am an individual. i dont adopt the religion of my parents or necessarily believe the things they believed or favor the things they favored. i have no pride in my race or family religion. that is stupid.

one of the main problems with the world today is people think like tribal cavemen. what my ethnic or racial or religious predecessors did means nothing. we have wars because people refuse to think like individuals. people fight over centuries old conflicts. if i was an ethnic arab i would not give a damn about some stupid tribal conflict with jews, i would just get the hell out of the whole scene. holding grudges over generations is stupid, and religion encourages it. thats one of the main problems with your stupid religions, it gives conflict a reason to span generations.

break the chain of stupidity, be an individual rationalist, not a mindless drone of your gay ass tribe, defined by random factors of birth.

also, until you people give up your own dumbass delusions, you really dont even have a case against anyone who does anything for their faith.

 

In the final analysis, the Pope speaks for the entire Catholic Church...any disagreements or opposition notwithstanding. HIS position is the position of the Church.

 

You are taking an offensive and antagonistic tack that I don't appreciate. I'm free to say that, just as you are free to ignore my opening request.