difference between conservatives and democrats

Discussion in 'Free Speech Alley' started by gyver, Jul 5, 2012.

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  1. red55

    red55 curmudgeon Staff Member

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    Only that is a tiny fraction of what the government spends. How much do you think is spent on welfare an public housing for the poor?

    Now how much do you think we spend on Social Security, Medicare, and Defense? That the vast bulk of it. That all goes to the middle class, mostly. Did you know that a family of four making $60,000 a year pays no taxes at all due to exemptions, deductions, and variou star breaks. The middle class. Do you have a friend who has student loans, or gets medical treatment at the VA hospital, or is disabled or living on social security and medicare. Not everybody who pays little or no taxes is a freeloader. many are elderly and have paid taxes for decades. many are students and will be paying taxes for decades.

    Well, while you are concentrating on slapping the mosquitoes you will be eaten by the bear.

    Uhhh, Yes. Now what in the world do you think that means?

    Oh, and this. Did you have to give your taxes to someone on welfare or did you send it to the IRS. Yes or No?
     
    red55, Jul 10, 2012
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  2. LSUsupaFan

    LSUsupaFan Founding Member

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    It is not a tiny fraction. We spend 570 billion on various "Income Security" programs ranging from UI to TANF. That is more than we spend on Medicaid. and VA benefits combined

    Link
     
    LSUsupaFan, Jul 10, 2012
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  3. red55

    red55 curmudgeon Staff Member

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    Everybody has his own idea of tiny, I suppose. Those programs don't appear to add up to 570 billion, unless you include $137 billion in federal retirement benefits and military and railroad pensions and $90 billion in middle-class tax credits, child credits, etc.. That brings it down to $340 billion in federal assistance for the poor. Not chump change, but still only 9% of the budget.

    Here is the interactive budget chart for 2011.
     
    red55, Jul 10, 2012
    #43
  4. tigerchick46

    tigerchick46 Quick Learner

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    How much is spent on welfare, the poor, social security and medicare? Way to much.....

    On Defense? Probably not enough

    I had 60K in student loans and paid every dime back myself and I'm 28.......no gov't or family help. I do agree some who are truly disabled need assistance nor have I ever said they are all freeloaders, but I see far to many in the medical field who are not disabled and are just working our Gov't system.

    Yes, I paid a portion of my taxes to welfare and every other handout program there is, the IRS is just the middle man, end user is all the programs listed and more.....including the shythead speed camera violations that fill my mailbox.

    Have I missed a question?

    Now, since you answered yes to Taxes are used to pay for these programs I listed and they in fact give money to others, how can you say "Taxes don't give your income to someone else"? I agree they don't give all of it to someone else but they do give a portion of it to others, many undeserving.
     
    tigerchick46, Jul 10, 2012
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  5. LSUsupaFan

    LSUsupaFan Founding Member

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    Where do you think I sourced my numbers? That is why I linked to it in my post. And 9% of the federal budget is huge. That is a third of the deficit.

    Drilling down on these numbers is really bothersome to me. There is so much redundancy, especially in the labor programs (which I am most familiar), that it makes me want to vommit.
     
    LSUsupaFan, Jul 10, 2012
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  6. LSUsupaFan

    LSUsupaFan Founding Member

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    We are number 1 in defense spending by a stupid wide margin. We spend more than 2-12 combined. Think about that. We spend more on defense than China, Russia, France, UK, Germany, India, Brazil, Italy, South Korea, Japan, Saudia Arabia, and Isreal, Australia, and Canada spend combined.

    We spend 5% of our GDP on defense. No other country spends more than 2.

    That doesn't even include our expenditures on VA benefits and military retirement.
     
    LSUsupaFan, Jul 10, 2012
    #46
  7. red55

    red55 curmudgeon Staff Member

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    Not directly. Your individual taxes go to pay for government expenses not to other individuals. A tiny (ahem, very small) portion of it goes to the poor and needy and an even smaller portion of that goes to people who are lazy and undeserving. Most of it goes to the working poor who grind out a hard living on low wages. How can you begrudges them that.

    If you imagine that eliminating this small amount of funding is going to solve our budget problems, you are in for a surprise. I simply cannot understand the obsession conservatives have with paltry funding for the poor, while they ignore the huge pieces of that budget problem. Social Security, Medicare, and Defense. And then they cut taxes of the people that can most easily pay it and don't need it, making the problems worse for the middle class.
     
    red55, Jul 10, 2012
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  8. red55

    red55 curmudgeon Staff Member

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    Indeed.

    [​IMG]

    Now I think we can draw a few conclusions from this information:
    1. There is no nation on the planet that poses a real threat to the United States in the way that the USSR during the Cold War. Russia’s share of worldwide military spending is less than the United Kingdom’s and equal to that France. Our military spending is six times larger than that of China. That’s not to say that there aren’t threats out there, but the idea of any nation posing existential threat to the United States is, I think, off the table.
    2. Our allies (the U.K., France, Saudi Arabia, Germany, Japan, and the vast number of nations that make up “Other”) can afford to pay more toward their own defense than they are now.
    3. We could afford to make serious cuts in our defense budget without threatening our own security.
    Doug Matagonis
     
    red55, Jul 10, 2012
    #48
  9. lsu99

    lsu99 whashappenin

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    As always, I enjoy hearing both sides of the debate on these types of topics. One area that has always confused me is Defense. Conservatives usually prefer less government spending but generally do not want to cut into Defense.

    Considering that it's such a huge piece of the overall pie, I would think we need to find ways of doing things more efficiently while still maintaining our status among the world leaders. Is this a pipe dream or is it possible? I'd also be interested in any pie charts, stats, or comparisons over the years relating to Defense spending versus other programs.

    Regarding the social safety nets, I agree that we shouldn't continue hand outs to those able to work although also do not have a good enough understanding of the ramifications of ending such programs. I realize there is a lot of fear mongering from both sides but would honestly expect crime to go through the roof. People get desperate when their kids are starving. I miss one meal and I'm a completely different person.
     
    lsu99, Jul 10, 2012
    #49
  10. tigerchick46

    tigerchick46 Quick Learner

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    Tell you what Mr. Red, I'll get a 3rd party to open a checking account and we'll name it TigerRedIRS. Each Monday I'd like you to put 100.00 dollars in it ( I won't put in any) and every Friday I will take out 90 and you can take out 10. Lets really capitalize on this thing together! I love your progressive thinking :)

    I view Defense spending like Recruiting and Athletic facilities.......you want to blow the competition away. Ok maybe we don't need 1,000 stealth bombers but we sure need 999 of them......just like defensive tackles.
     
    tigerchick46, Jul 10, 2012
    #50
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