Having utterly failed to make your point, and apparently having ignored my key point concerning "without knowledge", you now imagine that my dispute of your indefensible position is actually agreeing with you. :huh: martin, I know you don't know it . . . but you've gone round the bend. :insane:
There is more to life than science and absolute (which is really relative) proof. Anyway, who is to say there will never be proof? Perhaps it is your understanding (and science's) of spirituality that is need of evolution and refinement. I don't totally disagree, though I do believe churches do more good than most secular human congregations. Taking an active role is good for the world and for yourself.
Over the years I have learned that there are more agnostics than Christians in this country. They are either just too afraid to call themselves something other than Christians or too afraid to label themselves as agnostics. The term has been demonized to the point that it's considered a dirty word. Once upon a time sex was demonized in a similar fashion. I expect that eventually agnosticism will become similarly more accepted. I am not 100% ready to say with absolute certainty that there is no God. I have no idea what there is and I'm comfortable with saying that I don't know. I do know that I just cant get behind what is required of someone to become a Christian. but I am willing to leave room for the supernatural. I'm not nearly that arrogant. I do know that I have never felt so free as the day when I came to the realization that I was not a Christian...
Astrophysicist Robert Jastrow, a self-described agnostic, stated, "The seed of everything that has happened in the Universe was planted in that first instant; every star, every planet and every living creature in the Universe came into being as a result of events that were set in motion in the moment of the cosmic explosion...The Universe flashed into being, and we cannot find out what caused that to happen."9 Steven Weinberg, a Nobel laureate in Physics, said at the moment of this explosion, "the universe was about a hundred thousands million degrees Centigrade...and the universe was filled with light."10 The universe has not always existed. It had a start...what caused that? Scientists have no explanation for the sudden explosion of light and matter. A beginning to the universe demands the existence of a supreme being.
Man did not create the laws of physics; he discovered them. I am not quite sure what you mean by the "laws of reality."
Why? Because you demand it? When did "I don't know" no longer become acceptable? Why must we create answers for questions with no obvious scientific explanation. It doesn't mean that God created it. It only means that we don't know what created it. There you go trying to look smart again. I don't know where you work, but they obviously do not require random drug testing.
why? says who. lets be clear that this is a faith based belief. and who created the creator? he dosent require a creator? if he can exist without a creator, then why cant the universe? does you extraordinary expertise and experience with universe creation indicate this? how many universes have you seen created? how many of them required a creator and how many didnt? can universes just have existed forever? why not? look, if you guys want to believe that, great. but dont lose sight of the fact that you made it up based on nothing. and if your rule is that things dont come from nowhere, then that rules must apply to god as well. and if that rule does not apply to god, then why are you bothering making up rules and selectively applying them?
