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Christian fundamentalists are not qualified to be judges

Discussion in 'Free Speech Alley' started by Rex, Oct 5, 2005.

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LSUsupaFan Founding Member

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It is true that our country was not proclaimed as being a Christian nation by our first leaders. But, before you read too much into that statement, remember that the original settlerlers here were looking for a land where they could practice religious freedom away from the established hierarchy of the Roman Catholic Church.
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This is a blatant mis-statement. The first settlers here were the Spanish and one of the main purposes of their settlement was to spread the Catholic faith. The British were not trying to escape Catholicism. They were trying to escape the state religion of England, Angicanism. Many English settlers wre in fact Catholic, and lookng for the freedom to practice their faith. See Maryland.

LSUsupaFan, Oct 6, 2005

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saltyone So Mote It Be

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LSUsupaFan said:

This is a blatant mis-statement. The first settlers here were the Spanish and one of the main purposes of their settlement was to spread the Catholic faith. The British were not trying to escape Catholicism. They were trying to escape the state religion of England, Angicanism. Many English settlers wre in fact Catholic, and lookng for the freedom to practice their faith. See Maryland.
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Angicanism was not far removed from Catholicism.

The immigration of the Pilgrims to New England occurred in stages. But that they had to go somewhere became apparent soon enough. Theirs was the position of the Separatist: they believed that the reforms of the Anglican church had not gone far enough, that, although the break with Catholicism in 1535 had moved some way toward the Puritan belief in and idea of religious authority grounded solely in Scripture, by substituting king for pope as the head of the church, England was only recapitulating an unnecessary, corrupt, and even idolatrous order (Gill, 19-21). In one basic respect, the Pilgrims are a logical outcome of the Reformation. In its increasing dissemination of the Bible, the increasing emphasis on it as the basis of spiritual meaning, the subsequently increasing importance of literacy as a mode of religious authority and awareness, a growing individualism was implicit. This individualism may then have easily led to an atomization or dispersion of authority that the monarchy duly feared, and that later generations of Americans could easily label democratization. As a writer in 1921 put it, "They accepted Calvin's rule, that those who are to exercise any public function in the church should be chosen by common voice" (Wheelwright, vii). However much this might emphasize the democratic qualities of the Pilgrims, as dissenters they do suggest at some level the origins of democratic society, in its reliance upon contending and even conflicting points of view, and in its tendency toward a more fluid social structure.

But theirs was a religious, not a political agenda; moral and theological principles were involved, and from their perspective, there could be no compromise. For them 2 Corinthians made it clear: "Come out from among them and be ye separate, saith the Lord." To achieve and preserve a simplicity and 'purity' that they felt had been lost amid the some of the surviving features of Catholicism--the rituals which continued through into the Anglican Church and were epitomized in its statement, "'I believe in...the holy Catholick Church'" (Gill, 19). To establish themselves as rightful interpreters of the Bible independent of an inherited social and cultural order, they removed from the Anglican Church in order to re-establish it as they believed it truly should be. This of course meant leaving the country, and they left
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saltyone, Oct 6, 2005

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marcmc99 Founding Member

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Ah, a debate within a debate. But, not to lose focus, the common thread to Salty's and Supa's comments remains Christianity.

marcmc99, Oct 6, 2005

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martin Banned Forever

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kcal said:

The Judeo-Christian belief system is, in fact the basis of many of our laws. .
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thats true. yunno, before christianity people didnt even know murder was bad, they did it all the time. stealing too. and the people who killed or had stuff stolen from them, they were not mad or anything, because they didnt realize stealing was wrong. they didnt even want rights. but then god came along and told everyone about how some stuff sucked, so they outlawed some things. without judeo christian values, we have no idea what crimes are or when they have been committed against us.

martin, Oct 6, 2005

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saltyone So Mote It Be

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martin said:

thats true. yunno, before christianity people didnt even know murder was bad, they did it all the time. stealing too. and the people who killed or had stuff stolen from them, they were not mad or anything, because they didnt realize stealing was wrong. they didnt even want rights. but then god came along and told everyone about how some stuff sucked, so they outlawed some things. without judeo christian values, we have no idea what crimes are or when they have been committed against us.
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There was Old Testament law before New Testament law. There has always been law. It has always beens God's law. You tried to make a good point.

saltyone, Oct 6, 2005

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martin Banned Forever

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saltyone said:

It has always beens God's law. You tried to make a good point.
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does allah count? what about zeus? native american spirits?

martin, Oct 6, 2005

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saltyone So Mote It Be

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martin said:

does allah count? what about zeus? native american spirits?
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Read the book of Genesis. You'll find your answer there. When the fist murder was commited, Cain knew he had sinned.

saltyone, Oct 6, 2005

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red55 curmudgeon Staff Member

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Still he found a wife and multiplied. Where did his wife come from, anyway?

red55, Oct 6, 2005

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LSUsupaFan Founding Member

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We know killing and stealing is wrong because of Divine Law. We do not need the Bible for that, because God has made his Divine Law part of our creation. That is how Cain new murder was wrong.

LSUsupaFan, Oct 6, 2005

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saltyone So Mote It Be

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LSUsupaFan said:

We know killing and stealing is wrong because of Divine Law. We do not need the Bible for that, because God has made his Divine Law part of our creation. That is how Cain new murder was wrong.
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Thanks, I couldn't remember what it was called. "Divine" Law

saltyone, Oct 6, 2005

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