Chinese / Russian Joint Statement on the "New World Order"

Alright that is better, amigo. it is a supporting document, but not very convincing, nor the work of a proper historian.

This is a South Vietnamese viewpoint from 1977 and he puts an awful lot of spin on it. He is blaming everyone for the recent fall of South Vietnam, except for the main reason. One which both you and I have overlooked so far, but can probably agree on.

The South Vietnamese failed miserably to defend their own country, were undependable, poor soldiers, and corrupt. They allowed the VC to hide among them and couldn't manage any effective offenses against the NVA despite American help, even though the NVA was less well-equipped and trained. We carefully turned over the war to them (Vietnamization it was called) unit by unit and province by province and as soon as we finally left, they just gave up and let themselves be conquered. Didn't even put up a fight.

 

Right.

No, not likely, but now we aren't even doing that. But the enemy is in Pakistan, right? I'm saying we go get him and then leave when we've gotten him. Not hang around and try to install democracy at our expense when the locals don't want it or us. Fine we don't want them either. Just give up Osama and we'll go back to Picayune.

No, anything that is a waste of time and resources--avoid it. And who said anything about treaties? I said stay focused on the problem, fight the right enemy when the odds are in our favor, and avoid becoming enmired in nation-building at point A when the enemy is at point B.

I have mentioned neither Yemen nor Iraq in this thread.

 

Not at all. There will always be a small threat somewhere. But Bin Ladin and his organization are the only ones that have made us their number-one enemy. They are the ones who are responsible for 9/11! Everybody knows this. Do we have any higher priority than getting this job done?

We can worry about mopping up the rest of the highly fragmented jihadist groups when we are done with the Al Qaida leadership. Most islamic radicals are just being nationalistic or their beef is with Israel or each other. It is the Bin Ladin faction of Al Qaida that is our biggest enemy.

Geez, that would be great if it worked, but it doesn't seem likely. These bunch of doofuses celebrated the fall of their dictator by ransacking their own country. They just don't get it. Tribal considerations override even their fervent nationalism or their islamic radicalism. I don't think we can go in there in 5 years or 50 and impose democracy on that kind of a third-world people. They must develop the courage to take it for themselves. I don't think they are ready ... or worthy.

I know you're kind of new to FSA, but I've commented at length on all of these subjects before. Try the search feature for red55 on these topics for the long versions. In short:

1. Korea -- be prepared for war. The little bastard running the place is certifiable. He has nukes and understands nothing about the real world.

2. Iran -- do nothing. Iran is just posturing to be a regional power now that Pakistan, India, and Israel have nukes. The last thing they want is war with America and they really don't threaten us. Another revolution is coming there and we can best make that happen by staying out of it.

3. Pakistan -- be prepared for war. They have nukes. If Musharrif falls we will soon be at odds with Pakistan. If they openly back Osama, then its going to bust wide open.

4. Yemen -- just another patch of muslim desert. Their government has already been intimidated by us and has cooperated in special ops to go after terrorist cells. We can deal with these minor annoyance countries as we go along. Sudan and the north African countries are similar.

5. Palestine -- I'm getting sick and tired of the Palestinians and the Israelis both. It's time to end this crap because it has spilled onto us and the rest of the world. Palestinians have to acknowledge that Israel isn't going anywhere and give up the guerilla war and terrorism. Israel has to give up all of the land they took in 1967, except for Jerusalem. Old Jerusalem becomes an open city, Neither Israel nor Palestine, protective of all holy sites, and supervised by a council of Jews, Christians, and Muslims.

6. Iraq -- We've done about all we can do there. Saddam is captured, the WMDs don't exist. Start turning over responsibiities to the Iraqis, province by province, agency by agency. Force them to assume control by a specified time and get their act together or we are just going to leave it to them. Staying there indefinitely gives them no incentive to take charge of their own lives and get about rebuilding and establishing security. Why not just let the Americans do it while we sit around and bitch about them?

They want us to go home and we want to go home. This would be easy if the Iraqis had any sense of responsibility or some semblance of a work ethic. They make no sense at all. The best, cheapest, and quickest way to get the Americans to leave would be to cooperate. But they did not do that and they are not going to do that. We are going to have to force them to take repsonsibliity for their own welfare by giving them deadlines and then just leaving if they don't get with the plan.

A democracy is unlikely to be the result. They will probably continue to fight each other ethnically until a new strongman takes charge. But that ain't our fight.