Cheney and the new CIA controversy

Discussion in 'Free Speech Alley' started by luvdimtigers, Jul 13, 2009.

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  1. red55

    red55 curmudgeon Staff Member

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    Best to read all sides before making an opinion. What are you afraid of hearing?
     
    red55, Jul 14, 2009
    #21
  2. red55

    red55 curmudgeon Staff Member

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    That's not what they said. They said it was not "fully operational". That means it could have been 95% operational. They didn't tell Congress for 8 years and when Panetta found out about it he stopped it immediately and reported it. Nobody mentioned what the operation was at first. Now the CIA has leaked that it was an operation to kill Al Qaida leaders "up close." But there is more to it than that or the illegal secrecy would not have been implemented. 8-year projects damn sure have some level of "operational".

    It has been suggested that it may have been a plan to target Al Qaida by taking their family members hostage or some other tactic that is unpleasant enough to consider keeping Congress in the dark.

    But an admission by the CIA that they had mislead Congress in general indicates that it is something that they can and have actually done.

    n
    Nothing at all! But it is illegal to withhold it from Congress which has oversight of the CIA. They must inform the top highly-classified 8 people and those people do not have to inform the rest of Congress. It has always been that way. Nobody wants the CIA going rogue.
     
    red55, Jul 14, 2009
    #22
  3. red55

    red55 curmudgeon Staff Member

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    Your sermon is getting old. The NEWS is bashing Bush/Cheney and you want to forbid it and only bash Obama instead. That's fine, but the world has not forgotten Bush, just because you seem to have done so.
     
    red55, Jul 14, 2009
    #23
  4. SabanFan

    SabanFan The voice of reason

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    No. The liberal media is trying to bash Cheney with a little wisp of smoke and no fire in sight. And Bush is old news whether you want to admit it or not.

    Besides, I just like to talk about you when you're not around.
     
    SabanFan, Jul 14, 2009
    #24
  5. Beaux-Bo

    Beaux-Bo Founding Member

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    So if Special Operation Forces are operating a drone and they see a bad guy and fire and kill him that is OK with Congress.

    But if a CIA Special Operations guy is operating a drone and sees a bad guy and kills him/her that is not OK with Congress?

    What if the CIA guy sees a bad guy and tells a SEAL to shot him, is that allowed?

    Did Congress really think the CIA was not trying to kill bad guys after 9/11?

    I know, I know Politics. **** politics... If there is a really bad guy out there do we really care if a SEAL Sniper shoots him, a CIA sniper shoots him or a Baton Rouge Police Department Sniper shoots him (or her)?
     
    Beaux-Bo, Jul 14, 2009
    #25
  6. TigerFan23

    TigerFan23 USMC Tiger

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    From the article:
    It was never implemented and thus there was no need to tell Congress. Even if certain parts were implemented, they obviously weren't of significance to tell Congress. In any event, this doesn't bother me.

    Whatever it takes. A new article I was reading was that they were developing hit squads to take it top Al-Qaeda officials. Now this is just my opinion, but after what they did, I'm all for doing whatever it takes to nab every one of them, both for what they did and what they can do in the future.

    Fair enough, but she was very specific in how they "misled" Congress. When all the other evidence I'd read points to the contrary, I don't believe her. Besides, of course the CIA can mislead Congress. Anybody can!

    I got it and think that's good. But I also don't think that Congress needs to be all up directly in the CIA's business. It's a covert operation. What people don't know won't hurt them. This is all just seems to be in line with the Dems wanting to get back at the Bush Administration, if you ask me. Besides, what's going to happen when they "probe" this? Anything? Seems like it's just a waste of time and keeps them from concentrating on the here and now.
     
    TigerFan23, Jul 14, 2009
    #26
  7. red55

    red55 curmudgeon Staff Member

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    The program was carried on for 8 years until Panetta stopped it. Are you really buying that it was "never implemented"? According to United Press International, officials described it as "on-again, off again". That is not "never".

    I think most people agree and assume that Al Qaida was covertly being targeting in every fashion that we can devise anyway. That ain't the issue.

    The issue is that the CIA must be covert to the enemy and they must be covert to the public, but they must not be covert to the top 8 Congressional leaders. It's illegal and dangerous for a government agency to evade constitutional checks and balances. Congress would have likely approved of such covert action anyway. This was a Republican Congress that most of this program operated under, you know.

    But the Administration ordered the CIA not to reveal the program to Congress anyway. That's a very big deal and a challenge of the Constitutional separation of powers between the Executive and Legislative branches. Congress can't let this slide.
     
    red55, Jul 14, 2009
    #27
  8. SabanFan

    SabanFan The voice of reason

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    Where do you come up with this crap?

    The program was never operational. It was looked into and even some training was done to prepare for a possible implementation but it never reached the point where Congress should have legally been briefed.

    Here's the real reason for all of this indignation:

     
    SabanFan, Jul 14, 2009
    #28
  9. tirk

    tirk im the lyrical jessie james

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    the program was never operational AND all these leaks such as this one are directly from someone in congress (pelosi) to the ny times yet we have people who still want these black operations reported to the very people that leak the info?

    laughable and naive.
     
    tirk, Jul 14, 2009
    #29
    1 person likes this.
  10. Beaux-Bo

    Beaux-Bo Founding Member

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    Again, this is just political BS.

    Who here thinks members of Congress did not know that the CIA was targeting high ranking members of AQ for either capture or death?

    If a member of congress did not know that the CIA was targeting AQ members for death or capture do you really want that person representing you?

    Come on, this is political BS
     
    Beaux-Bo, Jul 14, 2009
    #30
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