Cathedral of Notre Dame destroyed

Discussion in 'Free Speech Alley' started by GiantDuckFan, Apr 15, 2019.

  1. Kikicaca

    Kikicaca Senior Member

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    I don't hate Muslins I don't hate anyone but I don't trust them in general. Where are the so called moderates? Are they all over the television and radio denouncing terror? Are they marching in the streets in opposition to terror? Yep first thing I thought about Notre Dame burning was Muslin terror. Anyone that thinks Christians and Jews are not being targeted by Muslins worldwide is not keeping up with current events.

    Color me Islamaphobic.
     
  2. uscvball

    uscvball Founding Member

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    Right back at you.

    So what? Good-hearted people aren't necessarily blind nor incapable of seeking the truth. I don't spend time worrying about internet hoaxes.

    This has nothing to do with fairness. A historic cathedral was essentially gutted by fire. Fairness? It's about getting to the truth and as yet, we haven't seen any.

    A construction fire....that started HOW exactly? Wood doesn't set itself on fire. Who cares about whether the firewatch official could have prevented some of the damage? It's about finding out the cause.

    Accidents? Lol. "Two thousand churches have been vandalized in the last two years (Figures released by French police showed that 875 of France’s 42,258 churches were vandalised last year.): Valérie Boyer, who represents Bouches-du-Rhône in the National Assembly, said earlier this month that "every day at least two churches are profaned" - by which she means arson, smashed statutes of Jesus and Mary, and protestors who leave human fecal matter in the shape of a cross. This is a fact of life in modern France." Recent incidents have included a fire in Saint-Sulpice church in Paris, human crap daubed on a wall in Notre-Dame-des-Enfacts in Nimes, and an organ vandalised at Saint-Denis basilica outside Paris.

    "It's precisely because Paris is full of people who would love to burn down Notre Dame four days before Good Friday, it seems bizarrely improbable that it should happen by accident: that a highly desirable target should be taken out by some slapdash workman leaving a cigarette butt near his combustible foam take-out box - the lunchpack of Notre Dame - and letting the dried-out twelfth-century timbers do the rest."

    That conclusion cannot possibly be known at this time and it's suspect to begin with considering the relative malaise that seemed to have taken over first responders once they arrived. How can such a detail-oriented fire prevention plan have NO plan for what to do "if"? But hey, a jury found OJ not guilty so there is that.
     
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  3. Winston1

    Winston1 Veteran Member

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    So @uscvball you ask how fires start in a construction site? Well they were using torches and grinders to remove the lead roofing. There are many examples where fire have started by accident with those. Consider the 850 year old wood is like kindling and it’s easy to imagine.
    Now I’m not saying that happened but it is possible. Certainly we should wait on investigation. I’m not dismissing arson but will need more than cheap innuendo.
    Yes that’s what you and others are using innuendo and prejudice to push for the reason you want.
    However you ignore or discount the possibility that if it was arson white atheists could have done it. Yes atheists in France have vandalized churches recently not just Muslims.
    I suggest we let the investigation find out what they can and reach the actual conclusion based on evidence not bigotry.
     
  4. Bengal B

    Bengal B Founding Member

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    Good one.
     
  5. mctiger

    mctiger closet claustrophobic Staff Member

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    Another issue they say was a factor is that the slope of the roof was more then 50 degrees. With that high a slope, the flames would go right up the roof.
    Also saying that true reconstruction will be virtually impossible, because trees large enough to make replacement beams simply don't exist in France anymore. What were once massive wooden beams will have to be fabricated from some other material.
     
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  6. Bengal B

    Bengal B Founding Member

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    Why can't they get the wood from large trees that grow elsewhere?
     
  7. Winston1

    Winston1 Veteran Member

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    They are growing tree for that purpose at Versailles. Whether they are big enough yet is unknown. Also they would need to be cured for a long time.
    It will be a fascinating challenge
     
  8. GiantDuckFan

    GiantDuckFan O the Joy

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    laminated beams are far stronger, and who is going to care about the roofs unseen underpinnings?
     
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  9. Bengal B

    Bengal B Founding Member

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    I think the beams were exposed. The esthetic value of massive beams made from a single piece of wood would be much greater than some composite.
     
  10. uscvball

    uscvball Founding Member

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    No. I asked how THIS one started. There were an abundance of fire-safety rules/procedures/processes in place, far more than your basic construction site. If people can say without question that it was an accident, then I'm asking for definitive proof of THIS accident....otherwise, it's just guesses and innuendo against innocent firewood.

    Sure, once the fire starts. That isn't what's in doubt. A small incendiary would have ended with the same outcome.

    Wait, you say? Tell that to French authorities. They've already decided it's an accident despite the dearth of actual evidence.

    It isn't innuendo when there are a plethora of examples of muslims who have attacked or planned to attack people and places all over France. Je suis Charlie....remember dat? The reason I want? What does that even mean? You should stop attempting to project false commentary on me. I am in search of facts, evidence, and truth, whatever the outcome.

    Did I? Where did I ignore or discount that possibility? The following are my comments in this thread, some of which don't even mention muslims, and nowhere did I say it was absolutely terrorism or if so, that it was de facto muslims. I called out a US rep for her ignorance of the blow to Catholics and Protestant Christians alike and that is a fair/accurate assessment. I quote statistics about the overwhelming about of church vandalism in the last 2 years and nowhere does it say the vandalism was muslims.

    "Somebody made a mistake. Who? How? Until those questions have been answered, arson and terrorism absolutely cannot be ruled out."

    "Just 3 years ago, a cell of radicalized French women guided by Islamic State commanders in Syria were behind a failed terror attack against Notre Dame" (This is a fact...I used it to point out that the cathedral was a terrorist target during a prior incident)

    "Interesting that there is no comment about a US Representative, a muslim, who couldn't find it within herself to use the word "Christ" or "Christian" when tweeting about the fire. Somehow it was about art and architecture. "

    " it is a fact that other churches in the region have suffered from fires since January. St Sulpice caught fire just a month ago. It is the start of the Christian Holy Week. The Cathedral has been the intended target of terrorists. "

    "Two thousand churches have been vandalized in the last two years (Figures released by French police showed that 875 of France’s 42,258 churches were vandalised last year.): Valérie Boyer, who represents Bouches-du-Rhône in the National Assembly, said earlier this month that "every day at least two churches are profaned" - by which she means arson, smashed statutes of Jesus and Mary, and protestors who leave human fecal matter in the shape of a cross. This is a fact of life in modern France." Recent incidents have included a fire in Saint-Sulpice church in Paris, human crap daubed on a wall in Notre-Dame-des-Enfacts in Nimes, and an organ vandalised at Saint-Denis basilica outside Paris.

    "It's precisely because Paris is full of people who would love to burn down Notre Dame four days before Good Friday, it seems bizarrely improbable that it should happen by accident: that a highly desirable target should be taken out by some slapdash workman leaving a cigarette butt near his combustible foam take-out box - the lunchpack of Notre Dame - and letting the dried-out twelfth-century timbers do the rest."


    It isn't bigotry to acknowledge facts and the change in French society. I came to no conclusion. I haven't seen any facts yet. I haven't seen any evidence yet. It is quite sketchy IMO, for French authorities to have declared it an accident when THEY don't have all the facts yet, when ZERO investigators had even had access to the cathedral. Finally, I'd suggest that your projection of my thoughts were a massive fail.
     

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