Bush getting a bum rap?

No they didn't. Saddam was defanged by 10 years of sanctions and was no threat to anybody, possessed no WMD's, and no Iraqi has attacked America.

Not at all. We have long been respected by our allies and our enemies. Now neither do.

Cop-out. Bush's non-military spending exceeds Clintons by far. It ain't all paper. Bush is spending money he doesn't have and it will eventually reseult in inflation, reducing the value of your savings in your retirement.

Untrue. Clinton had been out of office for three years when Bush's own intelligence people either gave him bad intelligence or, as the CIA suggests, misread and selective used the intelligence that suppoorted what he wanted to do. It was Bush that said "I'm the decider". You can't blame Iraq on Clinton.

You can't deny that Bush is soft on illegal aliens. Even his own party is not backing him on it. And illegal immigration is WAY up, since they know that they won't be jailed and probably not even be deported.

Harriet Miers, my mistake. You remember when Bush tried to appoint his personal lawyer to the Supreme Court despite her having zero qualifications. His own party rebelled. This president appoints people based on their support of HIM, rather than their competence and ability to do the job.

Nonsense. It ain't about the hurricane itself or how well prepared Louisiana was. It was about his responsibility for FEMA, which was responsible for federal emergency management. They absolutely blew it, mostly because Bush appointed a unqualified fool to run the agency . . . and then thanked him for doing a "hell of a job".

 

Then why didn't they all go to war with us? Where are the WMD's that he was supposed to have? How is it that no Iraqis have ever attacked America? His military was pathetic, what kind of threat did they pose?

Nonsense. Bush was President. It was an executive decision to go to war. Bush is the "decider". All those quotes from the 90's were about keeping Saddam contained with sanctions, which obviously worked, since all of the WMD's were destroyed during 10 years of sanctions. Clinton conducted airstrikes when it was required and kept up the pressure with sanctions. Saddam was defanged. Bush just overreacted after 9/11 and the success of the Afghanistan operation and thought a new Bogeyman had to be taken down.

 

On this we can agree. :thumb:

But I don't think you will like it much. Some history books are already out on the topic . . . and they are pretty harsh on "The Decider".

Three by Bob Woodward: Bush at War, Plan of Attack, and State of Denial.

Fiasco by Thomas Ricks

Cobra II by Micahel Gordon

Hubris by Micahel Isikoff

 

And the percentage of them that are acknowledged supporters of the Bush Iraq War policy are even less than that! The fact is, and you know it, that the vast majority of retired generals have not expressed anything on the matter. Most of them never served in the middle east in this war or under Rumsfeld.

Lets just look at those retired generals who have spoken out. SabanFan lists Tommy Franks as a Bush/Rumsfeld guy. OK That's one. Franks was the CINC of Central Command during the invasion.

Lets see, these generals were active participants in Iraq and have harshly criticised Rumsfeld and Bush for the managment of the war.

Obviously there was General Eric Shinseki, then the Army chief of staff, who told Congress a month before the 2003 invasion of Iraq that occupying the country could require "several hundred thousand troops,". He was in fact the Army's senior ranking officer when we went to war. He was forced into early retirement by Rumsfeld. His replacement does and says only as ordered . . . for the present. Serving officers cannot criticize a political decision. You know this.

General Anthony Zinni, USMC, former CINC of Central command, Frank's predecessor and the man who drew up the original plans for war with Iraq that were dismissed by Rumsfeld. You should really read Zinni's book. "Poor military judgment has been used throughout this mission."

General Joseph P. Hoar, a former CINC of Central Command. “Too little and too late”.

General Jack Keane, who was Army vice chief of staff in 2003. "Generals in Iraq were not really given the freedom to say how many troops they needed because when Shinseki said this is going to take a couple of hundred thousand troops ... he was cashiered."

General Barry R. McCaffrey, commanded the 24th Infantry division in the Gulf War. "A fools errand".

Lt. General Gregory Newbold of the Marine Corps. "My sincere view is that the commitment of our forces to this fight was done with a casualness and swagger that are the special province of those who have never had to execute these missions — or bury the results."

Lt. General William E. Odom, former director of the National Security Agency. "the principal beneficiary of the war was Iran and Al Qaeda, not the United States".

Maj. General Charles H. Swannack Jr., who led troops on the ground in Iraq as recently as 2004 as the commander of the Army's 82nd Airborne Division. "I really believe that we need a new secretary of defense because Secretary Rumsfeld carries way too much baggage with him"

Maj. General John Batiste, who commanded the First Infantry Division in Iraq. "We served under a secretary of defense who didn't understand leadership, who was abusive, who was arrogant, who didn't build a strong team."

Maj. General John Riggs, "They only need the military advice when it satisfies their agenda.

Maj. General Paul Eaton, US Army, was responsible for training the Iraqi military and later for rebuilding the Iraqi police force "He has shown himself incompetent strategically, operationally and tactically, and is far more than anyone responsible for what has happened to our important mission in Iraq. ... Mr. Rumsfeld must step down."


The retired generals are 11-1 against Rumsfeld/Bush.