Why does it have to be about hedonistic pleasure with you? I go to praise Him. I go to be lifted up and encouraged by a sound interpretation of Scripture that shows me how the apostles walked in a tough world fully dependent upon Christ to be their sufficiency. If I am led to not go to church one particular Sunday, I don't go. I am free in Christ. For example, I chose to go to a Saints game against the Seahawks rather than go to church a few months ago simply because I never get the opportunity to take my dad and father and brother-in-law down there having free tickets. I am free to do that if I choose. Maybe you feel that way, but it is not about a building or a particular person in that building or even attending any church every Sunday. It is about Christ in us, pure and simple. I base that on the Revelation book's explanation of what happens at the end of time when Jesus returns and the dead are either raised or sent down. *OT, but I also think that with the European Union adopting one currency and beginning to consolidate its membership, and with people talking about "One World Order or New World Order" that the end of time might be nearing. I am sad after finding out from Martin that a good American patriot lacked faith in Christ according to his brother, but I can only hope that he was able to receive before he died. I do not need anybody to tell me anything to smooth over the fact that if indeed he didn't believe that he would go to hell. I believe God and believe when he says that there is only one way to him and that is through Christ.
TigerRagAndrew You say you go to church to be "lifted up" by praising Him. What, exactly, lifts you up? If He were not listening, would you still be lifted up? You managed to avoid my question about why it is uncertain if people go to hell immediately. Don't try to obfuscate with me: it never works. I recognize non-answers when I see them. Please, don't rehash the deficiencies in Revelation; that doesn't answer the question. Instead, I'd like to know why the answer is unclear from Scripture. Does Jesus want us to guess?
I said that the interpretation of scripture showing the lives of apostles and how they walked abiding and trusting Christ was what lifts me up and encourages me. Not praise. I do not know why the answer is unclear from Scripture. It does say, however, that nobody can know a man's true heart but God and nobody should judge any man as to what their eternal fate will be. No. Jesus does not want us to guess at a random person's eternal fate as it is between that person and God. As for non-answers and obfuscation, you are the master of it. How many times have you replied to challenges on this board after you post unsubstantiated information? 0.
i do not lack belief because it would suck to believe in mean god. it would rule to believe in god. i would go to heaven and heve eternal life. instead i dont believe and i get death and nothingness. if was like everyone else and believed whatever would make me feel good, i would be christian. i was only pointing out what a petty bitch your god is, because he sentences people to eternal burning for not believing in him, even if they are clearly heroic men who served for good, like pat tillman. eternal burning, that is pretty bad. i am no pat tillman, but it looks like i will go to hell too. that is close enough to what i said. that is not the same as saying they are stupid.
Please, Andrew, don't patronize me. Since I and others don't subscribe to your particular version of "being a Christian" then we are misguided? What kind of supercilious crap is that? Continue to debate martin on the subject of "Is there a God?" but lay off the arrogant looking down your nose attitude of the beliefs of others, if you don't mind. And martin...You make some compelling points that sound reasonable to the rational part of the brain but you would be a lot more effective if you quit referring to those who disagree as puerile idiots. I may believe in God but, trust me, neither I, nor my personal beliefs are stupid.
i dunno how many times i have to differentiate between the stupid beliefs themselves and the non-stupid people who believe them. i have already done it at least twice on this thread. just because i call your beliefs stupid does not mean i am calling you stupid. very smart people can believe very stupid things. it can be hard to escape being indoctrinated. one of my best friends finally quit believing recently, after a lifetime of christianity. he said it took him so long because his parents and community had drilled it in him so strongly that doubting it made him feel guilty, like he was betraying his family. many people never even really meet people who are not the same religion. to them it seems nuts to not be christian, everyone is christian. thats the mentality that traps some smart people.
On religious beliefs... Religion is not a matter of intelligence, but of fortitude and self-centeredness. If religion were an intellectual exercise one would expect to find an even distribution of beliefs across populations. We know instead that Mormons are in Utah, Hindus in India, Muslims in Arabia... Those distributions reveal that people are inclined to accept their parents' religion. One's intellect can not honestly deny the phenomenon. The issue, then, is a matter of fortitude: of one's willingness to actually examine the truths of cultural indoctrination. Few people are willing to accept that they've been duped, especially by people they loved and trusted. It takes courage to even consider spiritual questions when you've been told all your life that doubt, itself, is a sin, and it takes further courage to stand up to the pressures of culture. Combine all that with an unwillingness by many people to accept their own mortality, that the universe was not constructed for their benefit, and "faith" becomes an extremely difficult force to break. Amidst their unspoken cognizance of the intellectual deficiencies of faith, any rituals that buttress such faith are embraced to compensate for them.
well, i guess the truth hurts. just because it sucks that there is no heaven doesnt mean there is a heaven. why would i tell any kids there is no santa claus? i love santa claus. i imagine i will be much more into fooling my kids with awesome santa claus stories than most parents. santa claus kicks ass. but i am not sure what you mean by the analogy. clearly christianity is sort of like santa claus for adults, and i am ruining it by spreading the idea that is a fraud. you people are like a girlfriend i used to have. she said she only believed in god as an insurance policy against hell. she realized it wasnt true, but she figured she might as well believe, just in case. i cured her of that. she now realizes that true sanity requires you believe in what is obviously true, and not what what makes life less scary.
