So, TigerRagAndrew... You go to church to worship your Lord, and express your gratitude. I got that. Now, do you do that to please Him or to please yourself? Please be concise. Are you arguing that other people's churches are institutions, but your church is not, even when your pastor instructs you on "the walk" ? At this point, Andrew, your arguments (what little I can make of them) are not very convincing. They're not coherent, so they can't be.
i know i wouldnt. i would play in the nfl. "Tillman's youngest brother, Rich, wore a rumpled white T-shirt, no jacket, no tie, no collar, and immediately swore into the microphone. He hadn't written anything, he said, and with the starkest honesty, he asked mourners to hold their spiritual bromides. "Pat isn't with God,'' he said. "He's f -- ing dead. He wasn't religious. So thank you for your thoughts, but he's f -- ing dead.'" - report from tillman memorial service. http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2004/05/04/SPG5K6FD091.DTL assuming you believe his brother is not lying, you would agree that pat is burning in hell?
I answered that. I said I go neither to please Him or myself. I go to worship Him, and if that pleases Him, so be it. This is not an either-or question. Denominations of Christianity and Islam are all institutions. I do not speak for particular church buildings or a person's particular individual faith and belief systems. I believe that the majority of Americans are members of some denomination or other. I would be interested to see actual percentage numbers on that. When instructed on "the walk" we as a individual body are not instructed on things to do to "gain favor" with Christ. We are instructed of, for a brief example, the importance of yielding to God in the various areas of your life that you haven't; and showing us biblical examples of men of faith who did not yield and the consequences of those selfish actions. To contrast this, we are not told "You mustn't drink, you must attend church every sunday, you must tithe 10% of your income, you must never sin or you will die, etc." That is the difference. I am not trying to convince anyone of anything, just rebutting Martin's comments that all people of faith are idiots and unintelligent. It really mushroomed when he said all religions are evil, and I felt the need to define religion for those that still don't know the meaning of the word.
It isn't clear from Scripture whether or not unbelievers descend into Hell immediately after death or after the Second Coming. If it is indeed immediately, then yes. Does that make me any worse of a person in your eyes?
no, i dont care what you believe, people are good or bad independent of their silly beliefs. i just think it sucks that tillman has to burn in hell for all eternity. oh well, he deserves it, according to god. burn pat, may god's will be done. i actually said the beliefs themselves are stupid, not the necessarily the people who believe in them.
TigerRagAndrew... So, Andrew, you go to church, neither to please your Lord nor yourself, but you somehow wind up there? So, you just by happenstance wander into the same building on a regular basis, to do the same things? So, you're nonchalant or ambivalent about whether God is pleased with your prayers or not? Do you do it from a sense of obligation? Who told you what procedure to use? Come on, listen to yourself. You know you're not being honest. I congratulate you for leaving the Catholic Church. But you've only traded one set of rituals for another. It's only a matter of time, I think, before you realize that all churches are pretty much the same. Oh, I almost forgot to ask. Just exactly why isn't it clear in Scripture if nonbelievers descend into hell immediately or not? Does Jesus want us to guess? And does that make Pat Tillman's fate more acceptable to you, that his eternal hell might be delayed?
martin, who decides why those reasons are stupid? Do you decide that they are stupid? Are you the ultimate arbiter of stupidity and relevance in this society? You sure are one weird cat...I mean, seriously, though...One minute, you tell us that NOTHING should matter to ANYONE...and the next, you tell people that things that are important to them are stupid... Because? Because martin said so... Quite an arrogant worldview... Do all people in this world who disagree with you get labeled stupid by you, and is there anyone who can differ with you on any subject that cannot be called stupid by you? What is a "non stupid" reason and how does it differ from a "stupid" reason according to you?
Rex...There have been people who've witnessed to you so many times on that other site, it's unreal...Don't come over here castigating Christians...We have faith, and a belief in something that is intangible...and yet that makes itself available to us at all times in a tangible manner. There was once a time you believed as we believed, and as a young, troubled man of 16 (I believe you told us all) you couldn't live with yourself believing like that anymore...That is fine... But, your tone sounds a little ridiculous. Don't demean the man because he has more faith than you do, no matter how silly you think the belief he places that faith on...
again, it is free speech alley. i offer up my opinion. i think race problems would lessen if people realized it was a meaningless, arbitrary way to deal with things. i dont care if bush hires all blacks or zero blacks. it is merit i care about. i also realize that believing in magic is irrational. my opinion. many things people think are important do not matter at all. race is an example. i take no pride in my race. i happen to be white. i also have blood type AB i think. i like george bush but i am not glad he has appointed blacks into any positions. i dont care any more than if he appointed blood type AB people. whats the difference? i do not care about the race of people in prominent positions, be it lsu quarterback or president.thinking crap like that matters is caveman-style tribalism, in my opinion. again, i never said anyone was stupid. i am talking about ideas and beliefs that are stupid. christianity is stupid. not all christians are stupid. islam is stupid. not all muslims are stupid. if i said any particular person was stupid, that was a mistake on my part. i dont believe i have.
All have sinned and done bad things in life. All are "bad" according to their works; if one sin was committed at any point in life it outweighs the amount of good things done in life. After the fall of Adam for choosing to believe the lie that he could "be like God" (knowing the difference between good and evil and choosing to do the former), all are sinners. You think it sucks, so you choose not to believe in a God that does things that you think "suck". He is not willing that any should perish. To that end, I believe that every human being on this planet will have a chance to come to Christ. This is why there are missionaries in China and Africa, the Middle East, and the jungles of South America. You called all believers sheep who refuse to question that with which they were indoctrinated.
