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Bill to raise Fed minimum wage to $10 hr
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  1. yes, you are forcing them into unpaid jobs!

    imagine a small magazine that needs 5 young interns to help around the office. and imagine the kids who would love the entry level jobs there. now imagine that the magazine can afford to hire 5 interns at 7 an hour. it isnt much, but it almost covers the rent for their tiny apartments. you force both the buyer and seller in this situation to bend to your will, and either work for nothing, or hire fewer kids. so now they offer unpaid internships because they cant afford to hire as many kids as they need at 10$. you are to blame. you didnt allow either party to do what they wanted. YOU are to blame.

    and your factory needs entry level people to work as well, perhaps part time, perhaps learning how things work as they develop into higher paid regular workers. but red thinks this is stupid so factories are just sent verseas. thanks for protecting everyone .


    price controls dont work. they never have ever in any situation, not once, ever. they always hurt. a central authority controlling prices is one of the many terrible things about authoritarian governments. the kind you favor. the kind that ruin people.

    and yes. that is evil. the only thing in the world that is really evil is forcing other people to bend to your will. you should only endeavor to control your own life and you should leave everyone else alone to manage their own lives. you should never step between a buyer and seller and force your will down their throats. they are not hurting you, so leave them alone.
  2. Red, what you don't seem to understand is that minimum wage workers are volunteers as well, from the standpoint that they voluntarily enter a business, apply for a job, and accept that job with the agreement to work for minimum wage. I have a position at my business that we fill with part-time, minimum wage employees. Some demonstrate the ability to handle positions of greater responsibility, and when a position is available, I move those people up to full-time employment with a corresponding raise. Some don't demonstrate that ability, and they don't move up. But every one of them walked into my office and asked me for a job, and agreed to work for minimum. Some found they couldn't make it, and when I couldn't offer them more, voluntarily resigned and sought other employment. They weren't coerced to come work here, deceived about what they were getting into, or denied the right to seek better opportunities. Yet you would have the government force me to overpay them for the level of work they perform, a level that my business simply can't afford.

    BTW, regimenting industry and commerce is part of the dictionary.com definition of 'fascism.'
    martin likes this.
  3. the incredibly condescending liberal mind cant accept the idea that people are making a decision on their own. particularly a rich first world white liberal mind. there are people out there who will volunteer for lower paying jobs for whatever reason, perhaps experience or because they dont care about money and like the work or whatever.

    i know lots of women who are married to rich husbands and do not need to work at all, but they would take jobs at non profits for very low salaries. and those non profits want to pay them. but red doesnt. red knows what is best for everyone. red stands between people making voluntary exchanges. dont make ay decisions, let red tell you what is best for you at all times. all hail red, let us all admire how he cares for the poor.
  4. You are a fucking kook, amigo.

    I'm here trying to explain how a federal law and and real internships work, because you are totally ignorant of both. And you are trying to portray it as ME personally forcing things on poor little you. Your debating skills have declined considerably if you think this hogwash is convincing. I've taught you better than that.
    I don't have to invent imaginary scenarios. I have worked with actual interns for 25 years. I have already explained in detail that an internship is NOT A JOB, but you apparently are stupid.

    That is funny coming from the most amoral character I know.
  5. No dude, a volunteer is one that agrees to to work without pay. That is far different than a employer offering a job and a a prospective employee accepting it. Jobs involve wages, volunteer efforts do not.

    That is a standard business arrangement, not a volunteer situation. You are conflating the noun volunteer with the verb voluntary. Employment is voluntary by definition, else it would be slavery. But voluntary acceptance of a wage does not make an employee into a volunteer.

    of course the employer/employee relationship is voluntary. But if you pay a wage, you are not using volunteers.

    Overpay? At $7.35 which is below the equilibrium wage for entry-level employees? At a wage which is below the poverty level?

    Regulating industry and commerce is also a part of democratic, capitalist economies such as our own.
  6. Indeed.
  7. This debate is being so thoroughly dominated that it is laughable.

    From this I am to understand that price floor is the equilibrium wage because the federal government said so. Makes sense.
  8. Why would you allow people to voluntarily work for nothing' for experience, and for lots of money and zero valuable experience, but not somewhere in between? Why not a little money and lots of experience?
  9. Already asked and answered. You begin to bore me, so let me paraphrase:

    1. Interns are not employees, they are students.​

    ​
    2. Internships are part-time, temporary educational training opportunities, not jobs.​

    ​
    3. Minimum wage is not "lots of money".​

    ​
    4. Hybrid situations like the one you IMAGINE do not exist.​

    ​
    5. There is tremendous flexibility in intern situations. Sometimes interns are volunteers, sometimes interns PAY for the privilege of OJT, sometimes interns receive degree credit, and sometimes interns are paid . . . but when they are, then the federal wage laws apply, as they do to any business.​

    ​
  10. job A: unpaid intern with the new york times. pays nothing, experience is incredible, looks magificent on resume

    job B: entry level copywriter with queens gazette. pays 7 dollars an hour. experience is good, but not amazing. looks decent on resume as writing experience.

    job C: writer for nazi daily. pays $200 an hour but is destroyer of resume.

    explain to me why job B should be illegal for me to take. i want job B! let me have it and stop being authoritarian. this is the way authoritiarians present everything to the ruled. "i am protecting you"
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