But Bush's non-military government spending far exceeds Clinton's. He created huge new bureacracies with "No-child" and the Dept. of Homeland Security but irresponsibly cut income at the same time. He's letting some future president find a way to pay for it. It's not half the population. 6.8 million unemployed out of 300 milion Americans, can you say 2%? Unemployment is lower than it has been in years and far lower than most countries. People are working, some blue-collar jobs just don't pay a living wage anymore. Americans are actually workaholics. Now, France is an example of people not working. They have a 32-hour work week and get 8 weeks of vacation a year . . . and they wonder why their productivity is so low.
A clinton thread that I didn't start! Clinton was one of the worst presidents of our time probably along with W, Johnson and Carter. There was scandal after scandal after scandal then you have... Waco, I believe 80 innocent children died on private property during his reign. Failure to respond adequately in Somalia, Rwanda and against al qada. I love it when people bring up the national debt because as much as they want to brag about it there are consequences for such actions. The same people that brag about are the same ones crying about the troops in Iraq being stretched to thin because we don't have enough troops to run a war. Yes, thanks to H 41 and Clinton the USA no longer has the military strength to wage war. Whether or not you support Iraq, most people understand that sooner or later we would be involved in a war, unfortunately. Some would say high tech but remember not everyone is high tech so that sometimes that may be a disadvantage such as Al qada. Maybe we had a surplus during the Clinton reign because he was one of the first presidents in 50 years not to wage war? Reagan had the cold war, H had the gulf war, W has the war from hell. If you go before that then Kennedy started Vietnam, Johnson same. Nixon who ended the war that was started by democrats. Ford, I don't remember but I guess he had to clean up Nixon's mess. I'll stop for now my thoughts were interrupted at home.
Congress began downsizing the military after the collapse of the Soviet Union because we no longer needed such a huge force in Europe and tens of thousand of very expensive nuclear weapons. It started under Reagan, continued under Bush 41, Clinton and Bush 43. Rumsfeld was a major proponent of a small, light army. We've never had a smaller defense force since before World War II. Your graph reflects wartime spending increases approved by Congress for the Iraq Debacle, not the regular defense allocation. The US military has not been increased or strengthened and the Army has been significantly weakened. Unlike WWII when we paid for our war expenses with War Bonds, rationing, and increased taxes, we are borrowing the money to pay for this very expensive war.
Clinton campaigned in 1992 for larger defense cuts. He accomplished that. You can spin it any way you want, but he cut defense spending. As you always point out about Bush, it happened on his watch. He didn't have to go along with previous admins. It was his decision to cut defense. We cut so much that we didn't have enough armored vehicles and vests for our soldiers when we decided to go to war. But, I'm sure you'll blame that on Bush. We should always have the latest and greatest weapons and equipment for our military at all times. You don't wait till you actually need it ... by then it's too late.
The polls don't support you, nor do the figures. There was one scandal concerning an oval office BJ. Whitewater and Vince Foster turned out to be nothing. The scandals of this administration dwarf them--Abramowitz, Libby, Cheney, Gonzales, etc. This makes no sense at all. It is a non sequitor if I ever saw one. Congress controls the military budget, Sourdough. It was a republican Congress in the 90's. Anyway, we have plenty of strength to wage war, our air and seapower is undiminished. It is only our army that has been squandered in a foolish crusade that ended up with us babysitting a guerrilla civil war among fanatics who hate us. Bush 43's crusade. Totally False. Bosnia, Kosovo, and Yugoslavia were major wars. He inherited a minor war in Somalia from Bush 41. He maintained a no-fly zone over Iraq for 8 years. He attacked Iraq with air and missiles strikes a dozen times for No-fly violations. He destroyed Iraqi facilities with missile strikes in retaliation for an attempted assiantion of Bush 41 in Kuwait. He struck Al Qaida in Afghanistan with missile strikes twice. I've pointed all this out to you before, but you just keep repeating the same old, shot-down unsupportable claims.
with you it is always about the polls isnt it? cant you see they have nothing to do with performance?
Get real. Sourdough was talking about the performance of several presidents. I said neither the polls nor the figures support him. He can't back up his claim. And you are just trying to derail the thread by bringing up an issue from elswehere.
I thought you didn't believe in that Paul McCartney song hmm... Yesterday and yet you are glued to this thread talking about guess who? Bill Clinton?:hihi: :lol: :yelwink2: I already backed up my claim here by talking about poll numbers for a democrat congress that you chose to ignore! Hey another paragraph to come dissecting your response to me.
That depends on which poll you use. I know you like to use polls but the problem with polls is that you can change one word in a queston and come out with a totally different answer. I find this paragraph quite interesting. What law did Libby break? Could it be the same as Bill Clinton? Oh yeah, we are back to criticizing the right and ignoring the sins of the left. What law did Cheney break or Gonzalez break? Have I missed something? I admit I quite listening to the news quite a while back. I didn't know firing people could become such a scandal. And the president has to sign it? Correct? I thought the buck stopped at the top? Edit:I have blamed the republicans and democrats for this, its not all one sided here. Now the truth comes out!:lol: The truth yet again, what good did the missile strikes do in Afghanistan? Please explain in detail? I thought we weren't at war with Al Qada during the Clinton years it is only because w took us to war in Iraq? I really don't think Clinton did all that in Iraq since we had to destroy most of those facilities in desert storm, no way they rebuilt that fast. And I have shot down your unsupported claims in a flame of glory. Hey, but thats ok, I guess I could go to a left or right wing news report and find whatever I want to support my views. One more thing.. It appears that former president clinton and vice president hillary has stock in walmart and big oil. Matter of fact red hates big oil worse than anything!:lol: Clinton pardened Mark Rich remember? No way Red will criticize BC which equals bill clinton or just bull crap!:lol: :rofl:
Besides the general subject being hilarious, "Clinton greatest president of all time", I think it's funny that it immediately becomes a venue to bash the current administration. There are sooooooo many ways to show what a pitiful record Clinton had but the easiest is the first thing brought up in his defense, in this thread. His budget surplus. If I order some tacos and hand the guy $10, and it only cost $7.25, then the remainder is called my change, not a surplus. If he keeps it anyway, it is called theft. Liberals love to crow about the budget surplus, but apparently fail to recognize that we are the one paying for the government. Why didn't we get all the $ back that was surplus? Now is it a bad thing that Clinton was able to run the government for less? In theory, no it's not, but of course the way he counted and did not count his employment numbers are less than honest, so the so called surplus can be quite deceiving. Plenty of articles and evidence to support this. That being said, some of you are really hung up on the national debt as if it denotes your personal radiation levels. The economy continues to grow, as does wealth and spending. I could care less about the government debt and Red and I have gone round and round about this. The debt bothers some of you, but by looking at the economy, it obviously doesn't bother most of us.
