everyone sane is "intolerant" of falsehoods. "pay dearly"? seems like a bit of an exaggeration. i think bible literalists are the minority. i think most christians think of the bible as folk tales and parables. they even taught that at my methodist church when i was a kid. atheists interpret the bible literally? i dont understand. sometimes i dont think any of you understand what an atheist is. i dont see why if you think god is possible that he cant contact us or make himself known. seems possible to me, i just dont think it will happen, and see no reason to believe it will. you are making an assumption about a being you know nothing about. attributing qualities to a being you have zero info about. i think you have decided to call yourself agnostic because it sounds friendlier than atheist. that seems to be the way you operate.
Absence of evidence does not constitute evidence of absence. Zero info is exactly what an agnostic is all about! You make my point for me. Theists believe in God despite the lack of clear evidence while athesist deny the existence of God based on the lack of clear evidence. Agnostics recognize that the lack of clear evidence does not preclude the existence of unclear evidence. Therefore God may exist. But certainly, . . . you and me and the countless prophets, priests, shamans and other self-proclaimed "holy men" don't know any more about God than my beagle does. It is impossible to know. Why don't you just tell us what you believe instead of imagining what I believe. I call myself an agnostic because it closely describes my beliefs and I should know them. You certainly don't know chit about me. Look up agnostic sometime if you still own an encyclodepia or a dictionary.
i am telling you that the truth value of a given statement is undetermined. you are the one making a statement. you are claiming that if god exists then there is no way for us to know what we wants and what not. why would you think that? i am making no claims whatsoever. i am only saying that everyone elses claims are made up. again, the atheist doesnt deny, he just doesnt believe. some atheists deny, but those are the dummies. you are the one making assumptions about the god and how hard he is to know or contact. you are basically atheist, you just dont like to say it because it sounds mean. you do not believe in god. for all i know, there is a god, that is talking to you all the time, but you do not listen. i dont not believe that to be the case, but it possible. you are the one claiming that we cannot know anything about god, which is made up and founded on nothing.
Do you understand "if"? That makes it a hypothetical statement, I'm capable of abstract thought. You are wrong on all three counts. How can you possibly think you know what I believe? Especially when I'm here stating specifically what I believe. You need to get off trying to tell me what I think, you can't possibly know. This is perhaps the most nonsensical, non-sequitor, double-negatived, and logically circular argument you have ever made. It is quite impossible to respond.
Catholics don't believe the Bible is holy scripture???? Where do you get that from? You apparently don't know anything about Catholicism. First, it is not a cult. It is the oldest Christian religion dating back to the Apostles. It first began to be refered to as "catholic" by Ignatius of Antioch probably toward the end of the first century or early in the second century. And in what way do we look at the world that you have a problem with?
i understand that, but it is pointless to talk about "ifs" you are totally clueless about. if there is god, maybe he can contact you and he will tomorrow, or maybe he wont. any assumption about his qualities is pointless and unfounded. specifically i mean this statement you made: "I only believe that it is impossible for us to ever know if God exists and what he expects from us." where is the evidence for that? how do you know that if god exists that he is some sort of being that prevents us from having knowledge of him? how can you know what it is impossible and what isnt? you are the type of person who is reasonable enough to realize that we know zero about god, so you dont have any reason to believe in him, but also the type of person who avoids extremes, and you think of atheism as extreme, so you dont define yourself that way. it is partially because in your mind you are using a very narrow definition of atheism. thats why you call yourself agnostic. its just a theory. awesome!
Throughout history there have been things that mankind as a whole knew nothing about and had no reason to believe existed. Amazingly, those things later manifested themselves as we grew in our capacity to understand. Our understanding of those things discovered often was incomplete, and sometimes erroneous, but the existence of that which was once unknown to mankind is no longer in doubt. I doubt that man has yet to see or know it all. It is quite exhilarating to embrace the unknown, but it takes faith.
I'm taking the night off from bashing catholics. I'll start a thread next thursday night about the differences between catholics and protestants, and why I feel the catholic church has moved away from it original roots. For some reason, I always seem to pissed off come thursday night.
Pointless? How would we learn anything if we refused to discuss the unknown, the impossible, and the hypothetical? You are missing the boat, mahtin. You jump to conclusions. I only maintain that there is no known way to determine the existence of God and no clear evidence that God has provided instructions to humans, which suggests that it is impossible to know these things. This does not preclude that evidence could someday become recognized. You have to think carefully about the old scientific truism I quoted above--absence of evidence is NOT evidence of absence. It was impossible to determine that the earth revolves around the sun 3,000 years ago. But when mathmatics had advanced far enough and astronomical instruments were developed, it became possible to know this. Perhaps I'm just smarter than you. :grin: It's far simpler than that. Atheism and agnosticism are clearly defined concepts and I know into which camp I fall.
