So you affirm that translation errors exist in the Bible, yes? MY favorite is "Thou shalt not kill", the most overt mistranslation in the Old testament. Ancient Hebrew only had about 8,000 words as opposed to modern English with over 120,000 words. It was difficult to express nuances without placing a word in context, especially in an oral tradition. They just didn't have the words for executions, battle deaths, suicides, homicides, fratricides, etc. But clearly the commandment was intended to mean "thou shalt not murder". The original Hebrew of the sixth commandment is lo tirtsach. Tirtsach can mean to break in pieces, kill or murder. Lo is the Hebrew negative. After all, what did Moses do when he came down from Mount Sinai with the Ten Commandments and found the Israelites worshipping an idol? He had 3,000 of them killed! In fact, in the first five books of the bible, death by stoning is prescribed for breaking any of the first 7 commandments except possibly the second. Surely the commandment did not include killing by execution. David and Solomon were beloved of God yet they slew "thousands and ten-thousands" in battle. Surely the commandment did not include killing in battle. "Thou shalt not murder", while not traditional in the King James Version, is actually the proper translation of the Sixth Commandment. It just did not survive multiple translations from Hebrew to Greek to Latin to English unscathed.
As an atheist who grew up going to church 3 times a week for 17 years, I can truthfully say I know more of the Theology and Scripture than most people. Just because one is atheist does not mean they are ignorant of scripture. Let's see, contradictions.... We know more than ancient man how many specied of animals exist on the earth; How did Noah get two of all of the millions of species on a single wooden boat? That would be physically impossible. So did he not get all of the species like the good book claims? The number of beasts in the ark GEN 7:2 Of every clean beast thou shalt take to thee by sevens, the male and his female: and of beasts that are not clean by two, the male and his female. GEN 7:8 Of clean beasts, and of beasts that are not clean, and of fowls, and of every thing that creepeth upon the earth, GEN 7:9 There went in two and two unto Noah into the ark, the male and the female, as God had commanded Noah. The Bible claims the earth is like 5-6,000 years old. How are we able to view stars that are millions of light-years away? How is it we an measure the erosion rate of rocks in mountains, and view each layer, with a fossil record - but no fossils of anything nearing 5,000 years old? In some texts God is a real evil hateful bastard (Lot's wife, Sodom, Job). In others he is a "Still, Small Voice" and a loving forgiver. What is it? CRUEL, UNMERCIFUL, DESTRUCTIVE, and FEROCIOUS or KIND, MERCIFUL, and GOOD: "I will not pity, nor spare, nor have mercy, but destroy." (Jer. 13:14) "Now go and smite Amalek, and utterly destroy all that they have, and spare them not, but slay both man and woman, infant and suckling." "The Lord is very pitiful and of tender mercy." (James 5:11) "For his mercy endureth forever." (1 Chron. 16:34) "The Lord is good to all, and his tender mercies are over all his works." (Ps. 145:9) "God is love." (1 John 4:16) Moses' personality Num.12:3: "Now the man Moses was very meek, above all the men which were upon the fact of the earth." Num.31:14, 17, 18: "And Moses was wroth...And Moses said unto them, "Have ye saved all the women alive? ... Now therefore kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman, ... But all the women children ... keep alive for yourselves." Righteous live? Ps.92:12: "The righteous shall flourish like the palm tree." Isa.57:1: "The righteous perisheth, and no man layeth it to heart." Jesus' first sermon plain or mount? Matt.5:1,2: "And seeing the multitudes, he went up into a mountain: and when he was set, his disciples came unto him: And he opened his mouth, and taught them, saying...." Luke6:17,20: "And he came down with them, and stood in the plain, and the company of his disciples, and a great multitude of people...came to hear him.. And he lifted up his eyes on his disciples and said..." Tempts? "And it came to pass after these things, that God did tempt Abraham." (Gen 22:1) "Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God; for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man." (James 1:13) Ascend to heaven "And Elijah went up by a whirlwind into heaven." (2 Kings 2:11) "No man hath ascended up to heaven but he that came down from heaven, ... the Son of Man." (John 3:13) What was Jesus' prediction regarding Peter's denial? Before the cock crow - Matthew 26:34 Before the cock crow twice - Mark 14:30 Where was Jesus three days after his baptism? MAR 1:12 And immediately the spirit driveth him into the wilderness. JOH 1:35 Again the next day after John stood, and two of his disciples; Good deeds Matt 5:16 "In the same way, let your light shine before men, that they may see your good deeds and praise your Father in heaven." (NIV) Matt 6:3-4 "But when you give to the needy, do not let your left hand know what your right hand is doing, so that your giving may be in secert. Then your Father, who sees what is done in secret, will reward you." (NIV) Human vs. ghostly impregnation ACT 2:30 Therefore being a prophet, and knowing that God had sworn with an oath to him, that of the fruit of his loins, according to the flesh, he would raise up Christ to sit on his throne; MAT 1:18 Now the birth of Jesus Christ was on this wise: When as his mother Mary was espoused to Joseph, before they came together, she was found with child of the Holy Ghost. God good to all, or just a few? PSA 145:9 The LORD is good to all: and his tender mercies are over all his works. JER 13:14 And I will dash them one against another, even the fathers and the sons together, saith the LORD: I will not pity, nor spare, nor have mercy, but destroy them. Need I go on?
Exactly the point that I've been making here. It isn't neccessary for the Bible to be incontrovertible to derive its message. It contains inherent errors, fallacies, and contradictions like any synthesis of multiple authors must. I agree that much editorial license has been used over many generations of bible compilation, translation, and transcription. I have nowhere disregarded the credibility of the Bible, you confuse me with martin. I'm just disagreeing with SupaFan that the Bible is "flawless, inerrant and contains no contradictions". Exactly. Exactly! Exodus 33:11 And the LORD spake unto Moses face to face, as a man speaketh unto his friend. No symbolism in this scene. Face-to-face is explicit wording, amigo. Was man not created in God's image? Genesis 5:1 In the day that God created man, in the likeness of God made he him.
red is not denying that the bible is an actual, real collection of laughably absurd primitive myths and legends. i think the problem red is having is that he agrees with me that the bible is total freaking nonsense, but it makes him feel mean to say it. and the hippie in him cant bear that.
think i'll take Red's word for what he believes. Martin angrily lashes out at religion because deep down inside he truly wishes there were a big daddy watching over him. He wants no one to have the comfort that he craves.
The post was directed at martin. This thread was made to discuss contradictions in the Bible and explain them. What I do not want in these threads is someone taking shots at the discussion. no.
nah, you fellas are missing the point. god does not care about traditional logic and making sense. he can do anything remember? like schroedinger's cat, god can be in two opposing states at once. he can be wrong and right at the same time if he wants. he can make (A) and (not A) be true at the same time. god can turn a light switch to a state of on and off at the same time. god can say that wesley snipes is white and have it be true even though he is dark as midnight. he can make a rock so heavy he cannot lift it, and still easily lift it. he is the alpha and the omega, you name anything, he is twice as awesome as it, even if you named him. the rules dont apply with god. he isnt contradictory. you are contradictory.
Yes, but there isn't any point in debating the various mistranslations. At my church, every verse that is taught on references the Hebrew or the Greek manuscript to examine all of the different linguistic nuances and contexts. Some people believe that the original King James edition is the most accurate translation from the original language manuscripts. I don't know what to think on that.
