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Ben Stein's take on hurricane relief

Discussion in 'Free Speech Alley' started by TigerFan23, Sep 4, 2005.

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MFn G I M P Founding Member

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I found this quote and thought it was fitting for this discussion:

"Let me make this clear: Everything which has happened as the result of Hurricane Katrina is my fault. Mine. Alone. No one else's. Stop wasting energy pointing fingers and put your hands to work helping out. It was me. Got it? I was a United States Senator from Louisiana in 2001 when the levee at Lake Pontchartrain was declared unsafe and I didn't have enough clout with my Senatorial brethren to get sufficient money appropriated to fix it. It was my fault. Oh. I almost forgot. I was the Commander-in-Chief of all United States Armed Forces in the 1960s which includes the Corps of Engineers. The cost-benefit analysis? My fault. It is my fault that, as the Governor of Louisiana, I didn't foresee the need to have enough Louisiana National Guard troops—the vast majority of whom are NOT currently in Iraq, or Afghanistan or, for that matter, Indiana—pre-positioned and ready to preserve order. I, frankly, forgot that there is a portion of the population which will steal anything from anyone given any opportunity and then will blame it on me because I didn't—in spite of ample warnings by sociologists from large Eastern Universities—foresee the need to have 27" flat-screen television sets available to every family in the New Orleans city limits as soon as the electricity went out. That one WAS my bad. It is my fault that, as Mayor of New Orleans, I was boogying down Bourbon Street the night before the hurricane hit rather than being where I should have been—on the roof of the Superdome pounding in extra nails to hold the roof on. As the architect of the Superdome, it was my fault for claiming that the Dome could survive 200 mile-per-hour winds. It couldn't even handle a relatively gentle 160 mile-per-hour zephyr. Strap me to my drafting table and set me adrift. Global warming? My fault. Despite the fact that nearly every serious climatologist in America has stated over and over again that there is no clear evidence tying human-generated greenhouse gasses to global warming, and even if there were, there is no evidence tying global warming to hurricanes in the Atlantic basin, I was opposed to the Kyoto treaty and so it is my fault. It is also my fault that during the administration of Bill Clinton the U.S. Senate rejected the terms of the Kyoto protocols by a vote of 95-0. That would be zero, zilch, nada, nil, bupkis. As the Grand Poohbah in Charge of all TV Coverage, it is my fault that there is constant video of looters and almost none of humanitarian activities. I am the person who issued the statement: 'No more rescue footage UNLESS the person rescued complains about how long they had to wait or, if he shoots at the rescuers.' And, finally, as Chairman of the National Association of Gasoline Producers it is my fault that I had the bad judgment to put so much of my drilling, refining and transportation assets in a hurricane-prone area like the Caribbean basin. What...was...I...thinking? If I could re-do that whole thing, I would have put all that equipment in Lake Erie and Lake Michigan. There may not be any oil there, but hurricanes are very rare. So. There you have it. Everything that has happened is my fault. Now. Shut up and help."—Rich Galen
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Everyone is at fault with the whole levee and aid debacle. Not just Bush, not just FEMA, not just the Army Corps of Engineers, and not just the governor. EVERYONE!

MFn G I M P, Sep 5, 2005

#21
saltyone So Mote It Be

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So, Chaos, you going to the game?

saltyone, Sep 5, 2005

#22
Contained Chaos Don't we all?

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saltyone said:

So, Chaos, you going to the game?
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I really want to, but I just can't possibly swing the $450 or so for flight and room. That doesn't even take into account food and beverages. I'll be at every one they play at T.S., however.

Contained Chaos, Sep 5, 2005

#23
saltyone So Mote It Be

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Contained Chaos said:

I really want to, but I just can't possibly swing the $450 or so for flight and room. That doesn't even take into account food and beverages. I'll be at every one they play at T.S., however.
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It's gonna suck, but I'm going. The game will be fun, but the drive will get old. 19 hrs from here. Damn. I'll be the guy holding the "Impeach Blanco Please" sign. :hihi:

saltyone, Sep 5, 2005

#24
red55 curmudgeon Staff Member

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captainpodnuh said:

I do have interest in why the levees were breached. In both the 17th st canal and the Industrial canal, both appear to have been caused by barges.

For the 17th st canal, there was a work flat used to build the new bridge that appears to be the culprit. This speculation was confirmed by Vitter in a press conference.

For the Industrial canal, I saw a large tank barge sitting on the city side of the levee. Again, most likely the cause of that particular breach. This is my speculation, but seeing the size of the vessel and the proximity, it is a logical conclusion.

I believe that the levees were holding fairly well, until man-made objects resulted in the damage.
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Impacts by watercraft are part of the design specs of levees. Practically any waterbody that requires a levee will have watercraft in it, in this case, very large watercraft.

I don't know the specifics of the levee failure here, but I do know that there are also seawalls built on top of levees at places. These raise the elevation of the retention, but they are tall and thin, unlike the broad earthen levees themselves. They are much more likely to be toppled by the weight of a storm surge or by impacts with barges and ships.

To raise the height of a levee safely one must broaden the base to a very wide footprint about seven times its height. This is expensive and requires the appropriation of valuable land by imminent domain. Seawalls are a cheap alternative. If a seawall or other thin barrier failed here it was surely false economy.

red55, Sep 5, 2005

#25
Contained Chaos Don't we all?

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saltyone said:

It's gonna suck, but I'm going. The game will be fun, but the drive will get old. 19 hrs from here. Damn. I'll be the guy holding the "Impeach Blanco Please" sign. :hihi:
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Yeah I made the drive from here to N. Mex. around Christmas...no way I can go further and back in one weekend. Rather just get drunk at the house with some friends, ya know? That way we can scream at the TV, etc...

Contained Chaos, Sep 5, 2005

#26
captainpodnuh Baseball at da Box

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red55 said:

Impacts by watercraft are part of the design specs of levees. Practically any waterbody that requires a levee will have watercraft in it, in this case, very large watercraft.

I don't know the specifics of the levee failure here, but I do know that there are also seawalls built on top of levees at places. These raise the elevation of the retention, but they are tall and thin, unlike the broad earthen levees themselves. They are much more likely to be toppled by the weight of a storm surge or by impacts with barges and ships.

To raise the height of a levee safely one must broaden the base to a very wide footprint about seven times its height. This is expensive and requires the appropriation of valuable land by imminent domain. Seawalls are a cheap alternative. If a seawall or other thin barrier failed here it was surely false economy.
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And I am in agreement with you. Except that the 17th st. canal is not a navigable waterway and should not have had any barge traffic present. The work flat was an exception.

As for the Industrial Canal, that situation is definitely a challenge, and your discussion on economics of construction appears valid. Excellent comment!

captainpodnuh, Sep 6, 2005

#27
Sourdoughman TigerFan of LSU and the Tigerman

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red55 said:

Most of the blame falls on FEMA (whose job it is to provide disaster relief) and the US Army Corps of Engineers (whose job is to see the levees are adequate). The heads of these agencies and the agencies they work for are Bush administration appointees. If Bush does not hold these people accountable, then he is at fault too.
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So no blame goes to the mayor of governor of NO and Louisiana?

Sourdoughman, Sep 6, 2005

#28
red55 curmudgeon Staff Member

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Sourdoughman said:

So no blame goes to the mayor of governor of NO and Louisiana?
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Not for the inadequacy of the levees or the late emergency response. Those are fed agency responsibilities.

The mayor and governor can be blamed for foulups in transportation, law enforcement, planning, sheltering, and public health.

red55, Sep 6, 2005

#29
captainpodnuh Baseball at da Box

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I don't necessarily hang a huge amount of blame on Nagin. His hands are tied when it comes to state response. His city was/is in crisis, he asked for help and couldn't get it from our pathetic governor who could only cry for the cameras when she didn't get the response she was looking for. Meanwhile, Landrieu (whom I am not a fan of) and Vitter were stone.

Go back to 9/11 and see if Guiliani cried, or he if was stone. He pulled it all together and got it done. IMO, you can't compare Nagin and Guiliani because of the size of the cities, but you can compare Blanco and Guiliani. Frankly, there is no comparison.

Red is spot on again about where responsibility lies.

captainpodnuh, Sep 7, 2005

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