it doesnt matter what the courts say,i am telling you what should be. if people wanna be be white trash we should let them, because squelching them is counterproductive. its not like you killed the mentality that is behind what they are doing. you strengthened it. there is a stupid list of things you are not allowed to do and say, groups of people you must like, its all silly. telling people who they must like and dislike only exacerbates the problem. if people are allowed to be honest about their prejudices, then it is easier for them to realize they are irrational, if they in fact are. shutting people up never works.
lets say for example during slavery, an abolitionist teen showed up with a dress that said "free the slaves". now that is clearly disruptive. by your legal logic that shouldnt be allowed. but we are not to judge on noble intentions. we do not say , "well it depends on if we agree if the political statement being made". we do not gauge what is acceptable by how many people get offended. people are stupid, their favorite thing is to be offended. it is not our job (as a society/gov't) to cast moral judgement on acceptable speech. our best policy is let everyone say whats on their mind, and let the free marketplace of ideas sort it out. we cannot go around grading various statements as politically "wrong" or "right". sure, this girl, she is probablky a fat white trash idiot. so what, i dont want to shut her up. let her alert the world to her status as a fat white trash idiot. if we make moral judgements about what we can and cant say based on what is percieved as offensive, i am sure i can find people who think your negative connotations with the use of the word "retarded" were wrong. drawing the line is too hard, and too stupid. free speech is what we are after.
martin, you are correct that the ethical issue is separate from the legal one, but even from an ethical standpoint the school was correct to toss her out of the prom. The school is a controlled environment, with an obligation to provide a secure atmosphere for its students. What's interesting to me is that some of the same people on this board who defended Bush when he tossed out 3 ladies from a campaign rally for wearing shirts that said "protect our civil liberties" are now insisting on free speech protection for that redneck racist and her rebel flag. What's also interesting is that those same Bush supporters will gleefully tell you how they would beat the tar out of someone burning an American flag. So they admit, themselves, that modes of dress and various flag treatments are incendiary matters. No one has a right to yell "fire" in a crowded public auditorium any more than they have that right in a private movie theater. It is clearly permissable to limit conduct according to the nature of an event. Hardly any public events could be held at all if some restraints on conduct were not enforced. In a perfect world that girl should be allowed to make herself look the fool, and other students should just ignore her antics. But this is not a perfect world (obviously, since in a perfect world nobody would wear a Confederate flag as a prom dress) and other students are not likely to ignore her deliberate call for attention. These are not adults, they should not be expected to act like adults, they don't have the same responsibilities as adults, and therefore they are not accorded the same rights. The school does not have to necessarily cast a moral judgment on the girl's dress to make a proper decision. All they have to do is recognize that the behavior is disruptive.
Hardly. Please explain to me what about a woman wearing a flag dress is insecure. Maybe they were trying to protect the girl's safety..... I cannot speak for the others who have replied to this thread, but I know that I did not reply (or even know about) the thread about what Bush did to the ladies in his campaign rally. Wearing a rebel flag dress to the prom is hardly like "yelling fire in a crowded theater". You may have an argument if she were to wear, let's say, full KKK garb and start yelling "I HATE NI**ers!" Again I would ask you if a student who shows up to the prom in a full Black Panther getup and screams incendiary things about whites should be expelled?
I admit, I didn't read every response in this thread, so sorry if someone has posted this, but the dress would clearly antagonize some, whether she intended to or not. Schools are controlled environments and they do have dress codes. Let's say I buy for a second that she's only expressing her Southern heritage, which is the argument most battle flag supporters use. Why do it at a supposedly apolitical event like a school prom when others would clearly be offended. Save the dress for another more appropriate occasion.
and my response to this is that sometimes people need to be antagonized as much as possible. i could maybe buy this argument if serious problems with distraction were happening in an extremely important and studious environment (for example at the SAT testing place or something), but in general i think people should learn to differentiate between symbolism/speech and reality. people should learn to differentiate between reality and speech. i love america, but i would happily take a dump on an american flag. i love racial slurs, and i encourage everyone to use them. maybe eventually we could recognize what matters and what doesnt. if this dumb bitch goes to the prom and gets attacked , clearly the problem is with the people who are offended. it is the people who are offended who need to learn that freedom of speech is a double edged sword. some opinions are disagreeable, deal with it. if her attendance at the prom creates chaos, it is not her fault, because people should learn to deal with opinions they do not agree with. i encourage people to wear all the rebel and even swastika flags they can find. then i will know where they stand. but isnt a better long term lesson to teach tolerance of other people's opinions, regardless of the politics of the opinion? if i wear a sign that says "niggers suck" and walk through harlem, when i get beaten up, isnt it the people who did the beating who are 100% to blame? is it so hard for people to learn that words are just words? it has gotten to the point where the racist themselves are not as bad as the indignant idiots scrounging for reasons to be offended. if we really accept that racism is nothing more than pure ignorance, why is such a stigma attached to it? if you are racist, be my guest, fine with me. you do not like blacks, i do not like asparagus. everybody has likes and dislikes. i do not accept these moral rights and wrongs associated with racism. hate isnt bad or wrong, it is personal choice. it pleases me when everyone feels free to say whatever they think, no matter how stupid it is. thats why i like expressions of racism. the political correctness atmosphere is so pervasive, poor andrew cant even type the letters between i and e, because it might hurt our little stupid brains.
Martin, do you believe that schools should not have any dress codes, then? (That's not a set-up or anything; I'm genuinely curious.) Also, would it matter to you if the school were public or private? Because it would seem okay for a private school to repress free speech, but not for the public school, b/c they are basically a part of the government. However, all the first ammendment says is that the government cannot pass a law regarding speech, but says nothing about an organization under the government being able to have standards that must be met by members. Of course, the problem is that students are forced to go to school, and then their rights are stripped away at school. I personally believe it would be a different situation if enrolment were voluntary. Then school make have a case for denying constitutional rights to students. P.S. About the PC atmosphere; I still can't get over the time when I was in graduate school, and a student refused to say the name of the character's cat in a story we were reading. It was a black cat called "Nigger-Man" and this guy would just say "Black-Man" when discussing the story, even though everyone else said the actual name.
I suppose in a perfect world, Brett should come on here and recognize that your behavior is disruptive, and that the majority of your post are designed to be inflammatory. By constructing your heading with the word retarded in a derogatory meaning instead of a compassionate one, you show no regard for those who's children may suffer such a fate, but in your rush to display your superior wisdom to that of a "retarded" girl, you have shown yourself to be no different than her. In fact, YOU have become the girl in the dress, she made her ignorant stand at prom, and you make your ignorant "retarded" stand here. The only difference is, I don't see anyone crying for you to be banned, but you are fine with the fact that she was hauled off.
Discussing a social situation on "Free Speech Alley" is disruptive? Disruptive to what? Maybe you should watch cartoons or something, instead. Personally, I think you just disrupted a good thread. I have no disrespect, whatsoever, for the mentally retarded. Only somebody such as yourself, with no point to bring to the matter, and whose aim is only to disrupt, would make the accusation. If I had called the girl "mentally challenged" what would your gripe have been then? Well, she IS mentally challenged, and guess what? That's a synonym for "retarded." In fact, I gave the girl the benefit of the doubt: there is no sin in being retarded, but there's a lot wrong with being a deliberate racist activist.
