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AOL CEO: 'Obamacare Is an Additional $7.1 Million Expense For Us'

Discussion in 'Free Speech Alley' started by mancha, Feb 6, 2014.

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kluke Founding Member

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red55 said: ↑

I hear you, but when I keep hearing words like "rammed through" and "forced through" I suspect political spin. These were duly elected representatives legally voting as representatives do with a duly elected President who ran on health care reform! Nothing illegal or "forced" about the democratic process. Just a party that didn't get their way having some major sour grapes.

I see this as no different than the Bush White House who had both the Senate and House as well as the Supreme Court in the Republican majority. They got their way on two wars, eviscerating regulations on financial institutions, "ramming through" the tax cuts for the wealthy and adding two new entitlement programs. Many very partisan bills got passed without Democratic agreement or concessions. I think it's the nature of the modern gridlocked Congress.
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Fair point about "ram" and "force" sounding like political spin but I didn't get it from the Hated Fox. It's how I saw the process. Yes both sides do it but I think it's a cause of gridlock rather than a result of it. I rearrange the chicken and the egg. It's laughable to remember that Obama was going to change all that.

I never said it was illegal; it's a legal law. I also think it's to late to unscramble the egg. [cough cough Red, opinion coming up] Which was always the point. Do anything, say anything, buy any vote, to get something in place. Don't worry about what we're passing; just vote yes. You can read the bill next month, or not.

kluke, Feb 10, 2014

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kluke Founding Member

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Tiger in NC said: ↑

Winston, I actually went back through the thread looking for citations but could find none. My point is that the "issues" that many have pointed to have been found to be dead ends once they are further pursued. I've also said all along that I feel certain there will be parts of the law that will require revision, but it is a fact that the law has not been in effect long enough to accurately determine what does and does not work. No piece of legislation this large is ever perfect so I am under no illusions, however I also can easily spot when some one is spitting venom without having chased down the facts and the truth is that it is impossible at the point to know the faults and perks of the law. My statement from your post that you highlighted was a bit facetious because I was asking you for information that I know you cannot provide yet because it doesn't exist. In a year or two we will have a much better perspective on the law and consensus will grow rather quickly around what needs to be changed and what is good and needs to stay. Right now all we have is conjecture and political mud slinging.

what's the difference in Red and I calling you guys right wingers and you guys calling us raving liberals? nothing.
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I'll ask you the same question I ask Red. We took a major chunk of the economy that had parts that needed fixing. But instead of fixing those parts we turned it on its head and reinvented the whole thing. And then we are going to wait 5 years to see if it worked.

Do you think that's smart policy?

And please don't use the line that if I don't like the ACA I'm for the status quo.

kluke, Feb 10, 2014

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LSUAthletics Founding Member

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red55 said: ↑

True, but look close at the numbers. They increased from 1.25 visits to 1.5 visits over 18 months. Not as big as it first appears, eh? When people know that they are covered they seek medical help more often. This is not surprising.

The study also reached a number of other interesting conclusions:

Medicaid decreased the probability of having an unpaid medical bill sent to a collection agency by 25 percent – which also benefits health care providers since the vast majority of such debts are never paid.

Medicaid increased the probability that people report themselves in good to excellent health (compared with fair or poor health) by 25 percent.

Medicaid increased the likelihood of using outpatient care by 35 percent, using prescription drugs by 15 percent, but did not seem to have an effect on use of emergency departments.

Medicaid increased the likelihood of being admitted to the hospital by 30 percent, driven by hospital admissions not originating in the emergency department.

Medicaid virtually eliminated out-of-pocket catastrophic medical expenditures and reduced the probability of having to borrow money or skip paying other bills because of medical expenses by more than 50%.

Medicaid increased the probability of not screening positive for depression by 10 percent.

Medicaid increased the use of preventive care, including an increase in cholesterol monitoring of 50 percent and a doubling of mammograms.

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It's long been assumed that insuring the uninsured would save an enormous amount of money because they would not have to keep using the emergency room. That's one of the main financial rationales underlying Obamacare. The findings from the study indicate there's actually an increase in ER visits.
Last edited: Feb 11, 2014

LSUAthletics, Feb 11, 2014

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kluke Founding Member

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LSUAthletics said: ↑

It's long been assumed that insuring the uninsured would save an enormous amount of money because they would not have to keep using the emergency room. That's one of the main financial rationales underlying Obamacare. The findings from the study indicate there's actually an increase in ER visits.
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You need to be more patient. ACA supporters say we need to give it 10 or 15 years to see if its really a flaw in the program.

kluke, Feb 11, 2014

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shane0911 Helping lost idiots find their village

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red55 said: ↑

I hear you, but when I keep hearing words like "rammed through" and "forced through" I suspect political spin. These were duly elected representatives legally voting as representatives do with a duly elected President who ran on health care reform! Nothing illegal or "forced" about the democratic process. Just a party that didn't get their way having some major sour grapes.

I see this as no different than the Bush White House who had both the Senate and House as well as the Supreme Court in the Republican majority. They got their way on two wars, eviscerating regulations on financial institutions, "ramming through" the tax cuts for the wealthy and adding two new entitlement programs. Many very partisan bills got passed without Democratic agreement or concessions. I think it's the nature of the modern gridlocked Congress.
Click to expand...

What you refuse to acknowledge is the deals bribes Barry had to cut with members of his own party to get it through. That is a totally different animal than a POTUS that has both houses. I know you will spin it but a bribe is still a bribe even if it's called a grant. Quid pro quo amigo

shane0911, Feb 11, 2014

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red55 curmudgeon Staff Member

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LSUAthletics said: ↑

It's long been assumed that insuring the uninsured would save an enormous amount of money because they would not have to keep using the emergency room. That's one of the main financial rationales underlying Obamacare. The findings from the study indicate there's actually an increase in ER visits.
Click to expand...

We discussed this a couple of pages back. It increased from a whopping 1.25 visits over 18 months to 1.5 visits. There is an increase in all of their medical visits, not just to the emergency room, but to outpatient clinics, and the doctor's office. It shows just how many medical issues they were not having seen to, due to lack of insurance. Once everybody is insured, Louisiana will no longer need to operate inefficient Charity Hospitals (the only state that does), all will go to competitive private hospitals. Most states have free county hospitals and clinics for indigents, they can be disposed of as well.

red55, Feb 11, 2014

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red55 curmudgeon Staff Member

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kluke said: ↑

You need to be more patient. ACA supporters say we need to give it 10 or 15 years to see if its really a flaw in the program.
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You made that up, of course. Nobody has said that. You also say that you disfavor both the ACA and the status quo. So what the hell do you favor? The Party of No just wants to be against something it often seems.

red55, Feb 11, 2014

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red55 curmudgeon Staff Member

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shane0911 said: ↑

What you refuse to acknowledge is the deals bribes Barry had to cut with members of his own party to get it through. That is a totally different animal than a POTUS that has both houses. I know you will spin it but a bribe is still a bribe even if it's called a grant. Quid pro quo amigo
Click to expand...

You couldn't prove bribes if your life depended on it. I challenge you. Good luck with that. You are either just trying to pull my chain or you are totally naive about how politics works. The GOP is playing major politics right now trying to get the Tea Party in line with the Libertarians and the Traditionals. Talk about deal-making and back-room arrangements. It has been this way since the dawn of democratic politics in Greece and Rome a couple of millennia ago. Sour grapes have been around for that long, too.

red55, Feb 11, 2014

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LSUsupaFan Founding Member

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Alls I know is Obama lied. I wasn't able to keep my plan.

The result of Obamacare for me is I pay more money for the same coverage for 3/4 of my family, and I am uninsured.

LSUsupaFan, Feb 11, 2014

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LSUsupaFan Founding Member

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red55 said: ↑

You couldn't prove bribes if your life depended on it. I challenge you. Good luck with that. You are either just trying to pull my chain or you are totally naive about how politics works. The GOP is playing major politics right now trying to get the Tea Party in line with the Libertarians and the Traditionals. Talk about deal-making and back-room arrangements. It has been this way since the dawn of democratic politics in Greece and Rome a couple of millennia ago. Sour grapes have been around for that long, too.
Click to expand...

What do you call the Nebraska and Louisisana Purchases? They left most wing of the Democratic party inserted them to buy the votes of more moderate Senators from Louisiana and Nebraska. The Democrats had to negotiate with their own party to ram this through. Not one Republican sponsored amendment was even allowed through committee.

LSUsupaFan, Feb 11, 2014

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