Am I wrong?

Discussion in 'The Tiger's Den' started by Don Castavez, Mar 9, 2018.

  1. GiantDuckFan

    GiantDuckFan O the Joy

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    Theoretical question for @TerryP , and everybody else.

    baseball or softball any level,.. runner on 2nd base only, on a pickoff play there's a tangle at 2nd, the runner rolls over the base, untagged, ends up a few feet away from the bag on the 1st base side,.. the fielder has the ball at 2nd base, first base is totally uncovered,..... can the base runner go to 1st base to avoid being tagged out?
     
  2. Bengal B

    Bengal B Founding Member

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    I would say no. The runner had already reached 2nd base before the attempted pickoff. If he had been trying to reach 2nd base after a single or attempted steal and the same thing happened he cpuld go back to 1st.
     
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  3. GiantDuckFan

    GiantDuckFan O the Joy

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    I don't know, but I don't see why they'd have a rule against it.
     
  4. shane0911

    shane0911 Helping lost idiots find their village Staff Member

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    You cant go back to a base once you've established the further base.
     
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  5. tirk

    tirk im the lyrical jessie james

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    I'd say no way. But it is ok to do so when you forget to tag up. You must touch the bags as you return say from 3rd to first. In order. So that's one exception.
     
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  6. mctiger

    mctiger closet claustrophic Staff Member

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    Rule 7.08
    Any runner is out when—
    (e) He fails to reach the next base before a fielder tags him or the base, after he has been forced to advance by reason of the batter becoming a runner. However, if a following runner is put out on a force play, the force is removed and the runner must be tagged to be put out. The force is removed as soon as the runner touches the base to which he is forced to advance, and if he overslides or overruns the base, the runner must be tagged to be put out. However, if the forced runner, after touching the next base, retreats for any reason towards the base he had last occupied, the force play is reinstated, and he can again be put out if the defense tags the base to which he is forced;

    So yes, he can retreat to 1st base and must be tagged out, because he is not forced at either 1st or 2nd.

    The best baseball book I have ever read is The Umpire Strikes Back, by Ron Luciano, a legendary ump from the 70s and 80s. In it, he said the rule book is very logical, and on more than one occasion, he got out of an argument with a player or manager by making up a rule on the spot, wording his argument as if he were quoting the book.
     
  7. shane0911

    shane0911 Helping lost idiots find their village Staff Member

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    But by what you have in bold the force IS reinstated.

    If I understand his question correctly a runner is on 2nd. Doesn't matter if he stole it or just hit a double. He has a lead and the catcher fires in an attempt to pick him off. When the runner dives back to 2nd he over slides the bag and is now on the 1st base side. I don't think he can then get up and run BACK to 1st. That is just foolishness.

    Bottom line is he is going to be out either way.
     
  8. 65Grad

    65Grad Maturity is Overrated

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    When's football season start.
     
  9. mctiger

    mctiger closet claustrophic Staff Member

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    @shane0911 You're right; I confused myself. It should be, if I read it right, that when the runner attempts to backtrack to 1st, he becomes forced at either base. Therefore, he can be thrown out at 1st or 2nd just by tagging the base.
    7.08 also goes into the possibility of a runner backtracking for the purpose of causing confusion in the defense, and says it is illegal. It also points out that a runner can not go more than 3 feet outside the base paths unless avoiding a hit ball, or avoiding a defender who is in the base path while trying to field a hit ball. I would bet in @GiantDuckFan 's example, the defense would argue that point. In any case, major arguing would ensue. I second @65Grad here; when's football start? (Thursday night vs Mr. Fournette and the Jags, if you're a Saints fan.)
     
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