Where in his post did he say that we are in a recession. I think he worded it to say that we are in unfavorable economic times, but I didnt see the word recession. The economy doesnt have to be in a defined recession for it to be unfavorable. Thats fact and logic.
I spend way too much time on this board, so I'm sure I've read whatever elusive implications you are referring to. Perhaps I'm not convinced? I can only guess what your point is, so I won't bother. The domestic benefit of Iraq is... fill in the blank. Make sure whatever benefit you believe we are getting is weighed against the cost. I am completely amazed by the amount of welfare Republicans want to donate to foreign nations. Where is your sense of economic responsibility, Republocrats? Keeping your head in the sand won't do any benefit for this great nation. We are a nation that is corroding and the Republicans are eating a large slice of that pie. Republicans want to blame liberals and deviant lifestyles, but they won't own their own sh*t. We're on this boat together, Republicans, Democrats, and everyone else who is along for the ride.
I'd say that's a little stronger than "unfavorable". I'd say "up to their neck" and "prolonged economic situation" infers recession-like conditions. I didn't say he said recession - I said his comments are silly because we're not even in a recession - and his comments would lead one ot believe we're in a BAD recession. :geaux:
I fail to see how I have ignored logic. And I have never advocated "victory in Iraq at all costs". Surely there is a happy medium between that and pulling out our troops without resolution? I think Patraeus is finding it and I am content that it is working. I assume the pinch you refer to is economic and not from losing a family member to the war. If so I would submit to you that the credit/mortgage crisis is what is pinching us, not the current cost of the war. This is not an unreasonable thought given the way the war was fought for the first few years. However the strategy has changed dramatically and we are now bringing home troops and turning more over to the Iraq people. I don't get the impression that either Obama or McCain want to stay there in the manner we are now, so in a few months the leadership will be quite different. However, one guy supported the current successful strategy of the surge, and one guy did not. The below link shows you were our foreign aid goes and it is staggering but don't think pulling out of Iraq will stop this. It's a drop in the bucket. http://www.vaughns-1-pagers.com/politics/us-foreign-aid.htm
Its still not peach pie on a sunday afternoon economically which you seem to be implying. Im not sure how you see it though, I will admit.
This is true and it is just as tiresome to hear people say we are not in a recession as it is to hear them say we are. A recession is not the only definition of hard times. To give an appropriate analogy: 1) Driving in your car on the highway at 60 mph = healthy economy 2)Broken down on the side of the road = recession 3)Car is moving but crawling at 5 mph because of engine trouble = where we are now Technically the economy is growing and has been, but it has been crawling. Merely saying there is no recession(there isn't technically) does not mean we are healthy, so it is a legitimate concern.
Since you asked, here's how I see it. (i.e. my opinion) We're at the unfortunate confluence of three "things", none of them "blameable" on any specific person or entity. These problems are systemic and at least one of them (the first one) is cultural. 1. Incredibly irresponsible credit management, both personal and corporate. 2. The long awaited and often talked about (but lately conveniently ignored) stock market correction that we've been due for about 2 years. 3. The long awaited and often talked about (but lately conveniently ignored) real estate market correction that we've been due for about 5 years. All three "things" have one very important element in common. Assessment of risk. People and corporations who have been responsibly mitigating risk in their financial lives are just fine right now. People and corporations who have let irrational greed take over are not doing OK right now. The number of people who are suffering yet don't fit those two categories is insignificantly small. Not insignificant to them individually. But insignificant in an analytical sense. This very mild economic downturn, in the face of otherwise challenging indicators and influences (and there are a bunch), indicates a very strong and robust economy, not a weak one. So when the upturn happens in about a year, remember to give me credit for predicting that whoever is in the executive branch will take complete credit for fixing the "problem". Smoke and mirrors. :geaux:
You know I can agree with alot of your assessment, however some of the adjectives in your conclusionary paragraph, I dont agree with. "Smoke and Mirrors", "very mild economic downturn", can you explain to me the increase in unemployement over the last 8 months. Please dont start of by saying most of it is in the housing industry.
The unemployment numbers were so small over the past few years, there's really only one place for them to go in my opinion. Fuel prices and (brace yourself) a struggling market for new home starts surely have a lot to do with it. But, again, I don't know a single person looking for a job that can't find one. Not a single person. And I have a TON of relatives who fit that demographic. Those in my experience who are out of work and remain out of work are doing so by choice and taking advantage of the system that allows them to do so and draw money. I wouldn't be surprised at all to see the unemployment rate rise a bit more and then be stable for awhile at a new "normal". Check this out. The first graph is '98 till today. Then '78 till today. Then '58 till today. The rate is approaching what looks to me to be a 50 year average. I assume that's sufficient explanation? :geaux:
Thats the ole hook n ladder play right there. If you re read my post I said the last 8 months, you presenting data over the last 10, 20, and 30 years will seem very insignificant to the debate, when I asked you about the percentage increase over the last 8 months which is relevant because we were discussing the current economic downturn.
