A scandal-scarred Republican party asks, 'What next?'

Discussion in 'Free Speech Alley' started by red55, Aug 29, 2007.

  1. red55

    red55 curmudgeon Staff Member

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    We appreciate you anyway.
     
  2. martin

    martin Banned Forever

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    our friends supa and sabanfan do not appear to understand either, as they both seem to think that they would be richer if the SS reform were enacted.
     
  3. red55

    red55 curmudgeon Staff Member

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    Social Security was never suposed to be a retirement plan. We have pensions, IRA, 401K's, and a ton of private options to save for retirement. SS was intended to insure that the elderly and disabled have at least a subsistence income, which is only right in the worlds richest country. We don't want elderly widows becoming bag ladies.

    Let's say SabanFan became disabled in his 40's, his wife divorced him and took his house, his broker embezzled his savings, and his sons became Hari Krishna's. Social Security would keep him from having to live out his life in a cardboard box down by Bayou Teche.

    Anyway, we've argued the merits of Social Security on other threads. This particular issue was about Bush's failure to interpret the citizen's feelings about Social Security. You seem to think this is leadership, I call it hubris.
     
  4. TigerWins

    TigerWins Founding Member

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    So good leadership is to do nothing until the program is bankrupt? The previous administrations ignored the problem and just passed it on to the next President. I guess Bush should have kept his mouth shut and pass the problem on to Hillary.

    Yep, I'm sure that's what the american people want ... don't propose new ideas, don't talk about it, sweep it under the rug and pass the buck to someone else.
     
  5. red55

    red55 curmudgeon Staff Member

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    Good leadership is to come up with a plan that meets the needs of the citizens. Good leadership is to come up with a plan that doesn't increase costs while lowering security. It takes more than authoritative resolve to be a good leader. He must also lead in the right direction and not go over the cliff. People will not follow such a leader.

    Hogwash. Clinton worked with Congress to reform Social Security instead of bypassing them and going directly to the people, as Bush did. Clinton signed several Social Security bills and covened a White House Conference on Social Security with Congressmen. Clinton managed to achieve budget surpluses while strengthening social security benefits. You can read all about it if you bother to look.

    President Clinton on Social Security

    I'm not criticising Bush for coming up with a plan. I criticise him for coming up with one that sailed like a lead balloon. He should have worked wth Congress to enact legislation, but that would have meant working with Democratic as well as Republican congressmen to find some consensus.

    Instead he foolishly tried to have "hometown meetings" with the citizens, believeing he could create a groundswell of public support that would overwhelm congressional objections. But he got his ass handed to him. The elected officials in Congress knew their constituencies better than the President.
     
  6. TigerWins

    TigerWins Founding Member

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    And yet SS and Medicare are both going broke. Nice fix, Bill.
     
  7. red55

    red55 curmudgeon Staff Member

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    Nice fix Harry, Ike, John, Lyndon, Dick, Jimmuh, Ron, George, Bill, and Dub.
     
  8. martin

    martin Banned Forever

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    clinton is like a wizard or soemthin. he can charge you less, while increasing benefits (spending). he should be appointed world hegemon.

    when bush tries to give us our own money back, he ends up charging us way more than before. i wish he was a magical money creator like clinton.
     
  9. red55

    red55 curmudgeon Staff Member

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    Facts is facts, amigo. Clinton ran budget surpluses while increasing SS benefits. He did it by not spending it on huge new federal programs while cutting federal income at the same time, as Bush did. Not to mention starting a foolish war that is costing us more than World War II did and is continuing at 12 billion a month.

    Analysis says war could cost $1 trillion

    Not exactly. Bush creates deficits because he spends more money than he takes in. Money we don't have. So we borrow it and go deeper into the biggest national debt of all time. Irresponsible leadership.

    Me too.
     
  10. martin

    martin Banned Forever

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    so let me be clear. clinton increased SS benefits, and you think this is a good thing? you, the same person who never stops worrying about runaway spending? are increased benefits not increased spending?

    spending is good as long as clinton does it, and when bush wants to reduce SS spending, you claim that is money that comes out of our pockets?

    if i am not taxed to give money into a government program, that is not a "cost" that americans pay. sure, "we" will have less money as a collective. but "we" have that same money as individuals, so it hasnt really cost us anything.

    that is like me not stealing your money and then claiming "we are poor" because you didnt give your money to me.
     

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