It's not all out by a long shot and won't be until this administration is out of office and in no position to block it. The problem isn't the intelligence gathering, they are being made the scapegoat. The problem was the decision-making by the President and his party. We didn't all believe it. I never believed it and predicted this would be a fiasco from Day One. A lot of people never believed it. A lot of countries never believed it. Many in the CIA never believed it and feel the administration cherrypicked what data fit their preconceptions. Most of our Allies didn't believe it or they would have piled on like they did in 1991. The President was in command, he made the case, and he led the charge. Either he hoodwinked us or he got hoodwinked by his own men. Either way, we deserve better.
We were lied to. The intelligence was manipulated. The dems are just as deep in cahoots with the military industrial complex as the repubs, you play ball with them or they outspend you, swift boat you, and you're gone. http://www.truthout.org/cgi-bin/artman/exec/view.cgi?archive=1&num=61 Resignation was BEFORE the war started. The insiders knew the intel was manipulated, and this young man gave up his career to tell the american people the truth, and to slam the Bush administration. The mainstream press didn't carry it. The whole letter is quite good, you should read it. I voted for Kerry in 2004. I didn't think he'd make a great president, I just thought he wouldn't be as bad as Bush, the lesser of two evils if you will. But the insiders definitely knew what was going on.
Something to think about...I was in the USAF for 6 years. My son is a Marine and was in Afghanistan for the better part of a year total. I can tell you from his experiences that most of what you hear on the news is BS. The whole time he was there people would go out of their way to help them, (often at the risk of their own lives), offer to feed them and be kind to them. Most folks over there want the same freedoms, rights and opportunities we have. yes, we've lost a lot of troops and its sad. But this is war, not practice! Most of the ones we're fighting are thugs and street trash. Thats the reason they're getting the "piss" beaten out of them when they come up against our troops face to face. The only way they have to get at us is sneak attacks etc. Has it been worth it? Ask yourself this question. Do you think that Iraqi the men, women and children who came out to vote and endured mortar fire, snipers and death threats (and still stayed to cast their ballot) think it was worth it? Or, how about this one. Wouldn't it be better to have another ally in the region right next door to a country that we "will" come to blows with before its all done and over? This is important for "tactical" reasons if nothing else. We "have" to be involved over there, like it or not. The security of the whole world is at risk if we aren't! Why us? Because we're the only ones with enough muscle to do it! If we don't engage them and stop them now, when would be a good time? After they get to say Miami, or New Orleans perhaps? Don't be naive people. These scum want to kill our way of life, us and our children! Will it take a bomb in an elementary school over here for you to get the message if 911 not enough? "These people will not stop in Iraq"! Finally let me add this, I love my children dearly, if I would lose my son in a fight over there it would break my heart. But, freedom is something that are kids "know" is at the core of this whole thing, Not just the Iraqi people, but the free world, and they will lay their lives down to allow some other poor soul the opportunity to experience it. Quote by Colin Powell: When in England at a fairly large conference, Colin Powell was asked by the Archbishop of Canterbury if our plans for Iraq were just an example of empire building by George Bush. He answered by saying that, "Over the years, the United States has sent many of its fine young men and women into great peril to fight for freedom beyond our borders. The only amount of land we have ever asked for in return is enough to bury those that did not return." It became very quiet in the room. :usaflagwa:usaflagwa:usaflagwa
I seriously hope my children don't have to live in the world that your imagination has come up with. I'm sure these "people" hate us just because we are free and wealthy too right?
As a veteran (USAF, Desert Storm Vet), I’d first like to say thank you for your service and the service of your son as well. My wife is a member of a support group called Soldiers Angels www.soldiersangels.org through her efforts, and many others like her; cards, letters and care packages are sent to those serving abroad. In the years that she has been doing this, we have corresponded with many service men/women, and to a person, all of them have expressed the things you have described within your post; they talk about the gratitude shown by the people they help, how they all miss home/family& friends, but do not want to leave until this thing is seen through. No one likes to be away from home, but they all understand, as only those who have been there can, that the fight is hard (it is what it is), but the cause is just. I think that in this age of instantaneous gratification that we look back in history when the last time a government was thrown out and how long it took for the new government to be viable, and look at what obstacles that process had to maneuver.
No, I don't think they do. Our nation-building attempt has been a failure. Many think they were better off under Saddam. An ally whose people hate us, want us out, and are trying to kill our soldiers daily? Who needs enemies with friends like that. We don't need Iraq as an ally, they have no military force capable of helping us in a serious fight. We don't need Iraq as a base either. We already have bases all over the region. Kuwait, Bahrain, Uzbekistan, Saudi Arabia, Turkey, Quatar, Oman, Afghnaistan, United Arab Emirates, Diego Garcia, and the 5th Fleet in the Persian Gulf and Arabian Sea. Afghanistan, yes. That is where our enemy, Al Qaida and the Taliban, are hiding. Iraq, no. Saddam is gone, the WMD's were imaginary, and the Iraqis never attacked us on 9/11. They got nuthin' we need. Iraq is a waste of American treasure and American lives. Obviously, Iraq had nothing to do with 9/11, even George Bush says so. Why do you keep invoking 9/11 as an excuse for continuing a failed political policy in Iraq? These ragheads in Iraq are attacking us because we are there! They don't have the reach to attack us here or they would have. They are fighting invaders on their own turf. Our enemy is Al Qaida, not Iraq, and we should stop providing them easy targets for guerillas. We are not winning the fight in Iraq and we should reposition be ready for the next fight. One that we will fight on our terms instead of the enemy's. Our presence in Iraq has led to the worst erosion of our international credibility since Vietnam. We're not winning anything there and the longer we linger, the more it looks like we're losing. At some point an Iraqi government is going to order us to leave and we'll have to leave on their terms. Better to leave on our terms. Our credibility as a nation will improve. We've shown to any potential enemy or terrorist host nation that we can take down your country in 21 days and stay as long as we want to. We've proven that. We don't have to stay forever to prove any more. The Iraq insurgents can't force us to leave, but the Iraqi government that we installed can. Meanwhile babysitting their civil war is not our fight. We can't even back one side since both sides are trying to kill our troops. We'll soon have other wars to fight and this one is breaking the army and wearing the marines thin.
Red I hate do disagree with you but, since we are, I might as well make it a good one. You're doing a very good job of putting everything in a nice tidy little box. Only problem is the world grew up and it just ain't that simple anymore. BTW, quit watching CBS so much and invoking liberals. What I said is the truth, unfortunately, a lot of folks think the answer to all this is to stay home and do "nothing" or debate it away. Guess what, Neville Chamberland thought just like you do in the late 30s.Which is, and let me emphasize this "A Crok of S**T! Most people had the same feeling prior to WWII. Do you really wanna go down that path again? Oh, and BTW, most of the A holes we're killing in Iraq aren't Iraqi! Imagine that! Not my opinion, opinion of vets who have been there. Us running and hiding behind our borders has never been and is not now the answer! If you really think we can get away with that and not get burned my friend you are "very" short sided. We are facing danger like never before, and I really worry that people with your take on all this will get in control. If they do, we won't be just burying a few thousand, but hundreds of thousands! I'm really sorry you guys refuse to see the bigger picture here, and its pointless to take this any further because you're dug into your position and I mine. Whatever the outcome of this thing, I pray in the long run our country survives it all. :usaflagwa:usaflagwa:usaflagwa:usaflagwa
