Why Everyone hates Universal health care

There are plenty of constitutional scholars who believe it is unconstitutional as well, and that the govt has exceeded its reach. The supreme court will decide.

 

Define "plenty".

The University of Washington had trouble finding just one and they were more than willing to teleconference them in on the discussion. Doesn't that strike you as just a little strange? Clearly any hopes that this legislation will be found un-constitutioonal is just delusional at this point, especially since it does not require states to comply.

 

Well, Sallie Sanford did clerk for the 9th Circuit Court of Appeals and they're widely regarded as the most left-leaning collection of judges in the country. However, the Harvard Law Grad argued that the basis for the argument of the bill being un-constitutional is in the tenth amendment:

However, the bill clearly gives states the option to opt in or out. No state is being forced, so this simply is not going to fly.

Many will attempt to argue with the Commerce Clause of this amendment, but in Gonzales v. Raich, the DEA was unsuccessfully sued by a California citizen because of medical marijuana (that she legally possessed according to California State law, but contrary to US Federal Law) that was destroyed by the Feds. She lost the case because it was ruled that growing your own marijuana for personal consumption might still enter the stream of commerce, thereby allowing Federal regulation of the product. Health Insurance is much, much larger (financially) than that so if the precedent has set for something as small as medicinal marijuana for personal use, I think it's safe to say that this is going to be a slam dunk in favor of the bill.

It's well written. The only hope of change is a mass upheaval of Democrats this November and I don't see it happening unless the GOP starts giving real solutions to some very big problems. American voters have proven time and again that they're not willing to exchange bad ideas for no ideas. That's a big reason why the GOP enjoyed a majority for so long: The Democrats had no ideas; Just blame, whine, wash, rinse, repeat.

 

I don't have to define "plenty". You have a computer, obviously. Try looking up words you don't understand.

Strange? Took, me 2.3 seconds to find scholars/judges/attorneys supporting the lawsuits. Did you bother to look it up yourself? No, probably not. You read what you want to read and you hear what you want to hear. I'm happy for you.

Since any hopes of it being found unconstitutional are "clearly delusional", it would seem more than unlikely that the Supreme Court will even consider one of these suits. Care to make a wager on that? :rofl:

 

I am quite aware of what the word means, but I am trying to nail down what your use of it is in your statement. It's not a difficult question, so I find it curious that you choose to quibble and re-direct with a smart-ass comment rather than be up-front and commit to an answer.

How could you possibly make that deduction from what I posted? I do find it curious that you have chosen to attack me for posting an article instead of offering something of substance to refute the conclusions in the article.

I had no problems finding a few. They're vastly outnumbered.

It's extremely unlikely and no I would not like to make a wager. I'm not the kind of person who takes candy from babies.

You could have posted a link to Ilya Shapiro's offer to debate the un-constitutionality of "Obamacare", but you chose the lower road. I can see that there is no chance of having intelligent conversation with you. You seem to be content firing off smarmy barbs instead of stepping out into the arena of intelligent discourse.

 

It is this kind of judgmental/"better than thou" attitude that drives me away from message boards. I would think that someone as "smart" as you would have a little more respect for what other people consider important.

First, abortion is a choice in YOUR opinion. In other people's opinion, it is cold blooded, state sanctioned murder of innocent babies. Respect the fact that some people who believe that it is murder will care about that form of murder more than jobs, taxes, etc... The question I ask you is: if there was a state sanctioned program to kill any children not meeting an arbitrary milestone (like not old enough to walk yet) on the whim of a mother, would you as flippantly dismiss the opinions of those that fought that sanctioning? So if there was sanctioned killing of babies who could not walk by their mothers, would that be an important issue to fight in your mind? In the mind of the anti-abortion people, they believe there is exactly that kind of arbitrary milestone being used (birth). I happened to respect their opinion and the weight that they put on this issue and am insulted by the belittling of that opinion.

Now I am not trying to derail this thread to an abortion thread, merely trying to point out that judgmental and "better than thou" attitudes are pretty prevalent in the liberal train of thought...

Second, immigration reform is a HUGE issue for some because bad reform can re-shape this country in many ways including jobs, taxes, national security, our military actions. In the opinion of some, if we don't beat on this and get it right it will destroy our country. For you not to see this is dumbfounding or just dishonest. Conservatives can clearly see how the liberals in this country can use this issue to benefit the liberal way of thinking and destroy our country in the process if immigration reform gets sort of swept under the rug and not fully discussed and thought out before being implemented. You can say we are being cynical, but it looks pretty suspicious when liberals want to quiet the discussion on immigration reform.

 

Abortion is a choice just like shooting someone in the face is a choice. It does not matter if the person is located in a prison or in a womb. A choice has been made and that is the context in which I was speaking. Your analogies don't even approach to what one would call accurate.

It is a dead issue because never, even under the best of circumstances will the SCOTUS ruling be reversed. Not even if there were all conservative judges placed by an all-conservative Congress. They are lawyers who make decisions on the ruling of the law and precedents. Emotion and personal belief is not a factor. Any money and/or time spent in an effort to make this an issue is in vain for this simple reason.

I respect that it's your opinion, but when your opinions distract our political leaders from issues that affect the entire country, I have a problem with it.

It is a ridiculous, unfounded position is why I don 't share your view. It's also exactly why our political leaders have done nothing about it. We can launch an all-out war in an un-involved country the name of terrorism in a few weeks, but it takes years to still not reform immigration laws? Conservatives were the group to ring the immigration bell only to put it away once a majority was secured, led by corporations and business leaders who stand the most to lose. It's been a dead issue ever since, except for states who share a border with Mexico.

Both of these simply play on people's fears and emotions, just like same-sex marriage and your weak argument only proves my point. I'm not being any more judgmental than you are being irrational.

These are not the positions of a Conservative or a Liberal. The political scale does not enter into the equation. This is nothing more than logical thinking and it can be applied in all facets of life and not just politics.

 

I don't know why you think that what I wrote proves anything about the judgmental behavior of conservatives. Stating the opinion of some conservatives does not judge liberals. I can think that abortion is a bad idea and still respect that your opinion is that it is not.

My point is that I can think that your reasoning is flawed without calling you "weak-minded". I can think that a liberal view of diversity (for example) is not all that important without calling it a "stupid" thing to put value in. People can be wrong without being "weak-minded" and their focus "stupid".

The harsh language I used to descibe the view of some on the anti-abortion side was to point out that the abortion topic is not just a "choice" to some people. To them it is an outrage that threatens the very moral fiber of our country. And that is not a "stupid" thing for them to focus on if they believe that.

And BTW, the view I described with regards to abortion is not my view. My view is that I have no idea when life starts but I think that we should error on the side of safety (once the egg is fertilized, leave it alone). Choice happens when you spread your legs.

 

excuse me?????

are you forgetting about the sperm donation part of this equation?

and what about the woman who "spreads her legs" in the case of rape or incest? did she have a choice? im not debating abortion, but the fact that you seem to think the woman bears the sole responsibility in unwanted/accidental pregnancies.

can you be any more misogynistic?