Military What was done is being undone...Iraq

Discussion in 'Free Speech Alley' started by mancha, Jun 12, 2014.

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  1. red55

    red55 curmudgeon Staff Member

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    I understand in this day and age that people want to know everything that's going on just as soon as it happens, but that is not only impractical in matters of diplomacy and warfare, it is often very unwise. There are a lot of negotiations going on, there are friendly governments who don't need to hear important matters on CNN before they hear from Obama or Kerry. Worse there are enemies that don't need to know our plans and capabilities. In addition we are in a situation where the scenario changes daily requiring changes in strategy. It's almost impossible to lay out a master plan that may have to be modified before the week is out. The media often feels some kind of entitlement to be informed of every detail to keep from having dead air on their 24-hour news feeds and a hear some of this in the article. But that is not the Presidents problem.

    The guy does make some good points . . .

    "The United States does not, in the 21st century, have the necessary power to combat the jihadis on its own; it must have partners and allies. The jihadis are a direct threat to Assad’s Syria, Russia, Iran, Saudi Arabia and the other Gulf States, Jordan, and Western Europe, to name a few. Washington has to forge a military coalition to fight the jihadis in Iraq and Syria, and all of these states have to contribute to the effort in one way or another. Yes, Moscow and Tehran are troublesome today for a variety of good reasons. That said, they feel as or more threatened by the jihadis, and would be as or more willing than Washington to contribute to the jihadi defeat."​

    Our allies have been dragging their feet and expecting us to do it all as usual.

    "Fashioning this military/diplomatic coalition has to take priority over resolving nasty internal political problems in Baghdad and Damascus. Mr. Obama and his team seem to want to solve the political problems before they do anything else in a serious way. That will take too long and will be too risky. It’s critical to resolve all these problems, but it’s more critical to stop the jihadis now and drive them back. In the meantime, let Iraqi forces and various Syrians help where they can on the battlefield."​

    Here he is missing something important. We are already helping the Syrian resistance and the Iraqis (mostly the deserving Kurds, but there are hundreds of advisors in Baghdad). But we cannot go to war to protect the Malaki regime, whose incompetence brought about the current situation. We had managed to get many of the Sunni tribal chiefs to cooperate before we left, but Malaki shut them out of the government and the army and many have gone over to the Islamic State. It is important to get Maliki out of the way right now. Pouring money and weapons to people who steal the money and squander the equipment makes no sense whatsoever.
     
    red55, Aug 13, 2014
    #261
  2. red55

    red55 curmudgeon Staff Member

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    Well this question is starting to clear up. Our old NATO buddies in Turkey have been supplying ISIS.

    Why is Turkey supporting Islamic State fighters in Iraq?

    After Opening Way to Rebels, Turkey Is Paying Heavy Price
     
    Last edited: Aug 13, 2014
    red55, Aug 13, 2014
    #262
  3. alfredeneuman

    alfredeneuman Founding Member

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    alfredeneuman, Aug 13, 2014
    #263
  4. Winston1

    Winston1 Founding Member

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    There has been debate inside the Obama administration about support of Syrian rebels. HRC's difference with the president is NOT just political positioning it is deep and long established. Any support of Syrian rebels has been minimal at best. http://www.thedailybeast.com/articl...-and-ignored-her-iraq-warnings-for-years.html

    Quotes from the article
    "Even U.S. allies in the region, who wanted the United States to take control of the arming of the rebels, were complaining loudly to U.S. officials that the extremists were taking advantage of U.S. inaction."
    “There was never a stated policy, but there was a well understood view that we were not going to do any more in Syria than we absolutely had to,” said James Smith, who served as U.S. ambassador to Saudi Arabia from 2009 to 2013. “The Saudis wanted us to be more involved. They were very concerned about the U.S. being perceived as weak and ineffectual.”

    Your claim that we have helped the rebels is proven wrong by this" “Clinton understood that the guys with the guns mattered, not the people in Istanbul, that it would have regional implications, and that it could become one large operating area for al Qaeda,” said Ford. “The most we could do was to provide help to the civilian opposition. We had no permission from the White House to help the FSA, so we did not do so.”

    Toward the end of 2012, the White House allowed Ford and other State Department officials to have direct contact with the FSA but still barred even the provision of non-lethal aid. John Kerry, who also pushed to arm the rebels, finally got the White House to agree to non-lethal assistance in February 2013. The CIA ticked up its support for some armed rebel groups later that summer.

    Warnings were ignored :
    But the warnings, which also came from other senior officials—including then-CIA chief David Petraeus and Defense Secretary Leon Panetta—fell on deaf ears. Obama’s small circle of White House foreign policy advisers resisted efforts to make connections with rebel fighters on the ground until 2013, when the administration began to train and equip a few select vetted brigades. For many who worked on Syria policy inside the administration, it was too little, too late.
    In the spring of 2012, the State Department prepared several classified reports for the White House that provided evidence that the Assad regime was much more durable than thought and was not on the verge of collapse, as both the White House and State Department had assessed up to that point. Back then, the al Qaeda offshoot Jabhat al-Nusra was the main extremist threat, but Clinton’s State Department was prevented from having any relationship with the rebels who were fighting both the terrorists and the regime, often having to work through intermediaries.
     
    Winston1, Aug 14, 2014
    #264
  5. HalloweenRun

    HalloweenRun Founding Member

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    "No boots on the ground" did not last very long. Kind of like, "You can keep your doctors." Is is habitual or pathological?
     
    HalloweenRun, Aug 14, 2014
    #265
  6. red55

    red55 curmudgeon Staff Member

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    Geez, can't you see that this article is proof that Hillary is ginning support for a Presidential run by showing some independence from Obama? Smart girl.

    Bullshit. The Saudis were concerned about ISIS-like challenges to their own dictatorship. The Saudis are rich and have been provided vast weaponry. They have bases within F-15 range. Why didn't the Saudis take some action? Well, why should they. They expect the USA to do their work for them. The citizens do not want the United States to go to war in a Syrian civil war, both sides of which hate us . . . except you perhaps.

    Get up to speed. The CIA has been funneling arms to the Syrian moderates for year now. It's a fact. Your own citation says so. Obama has asked Congress for money to send more. Congress has not given it. It has been important to vet the people that get these arms because many of them are allied with ISIS or in danger of being beaten by ISIS an the arms ending in the wrong hands. It is disingenuous for you to ignore this.

    This is just more of your mantra that everything Obama does is wrong . . . especially if it is exactly what the republicans would do..
     
    red55, Aug 14, 2014
    #266
  7. MLUTiger

    MLUTiger Secular Humanist

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    I think this says more about you than Obama...
     
    MLUTiger, Aug 14, 2014
    #267
  8. MLUTiger

    MLUTiger Secular Humanist

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    Two different lies. The "You can keep your doctors" was deliberate (funny though how the opposition didn't "discover" it until after the ACA was implemented rather than before when changes could have been made). The current situation is a reversal of action due to changing circumstances. Not so much a lie than admitting a poorly made promise and then correcting it. I'd rather someone admit their mistake and correct it than continue to follow the path the lie started. Wouldn't you? That shoiws a bit of character to admit one's mistake and do what they feel is the right thing knowing they will be judged harshly for it.

    If we only had a candidate that was infallible to vote for...
     
    MLUTiger, Aug 14, 2014
    #268
  9. red55

    red55 curmudgeon Staff Member

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    "Stay the Course!"

    "Read my lips!"
     
    red55, Aug 14, 2014
    #269
  10. shane0911

    shane0911 Helping lost idiots find their village

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    Well one thing looks certain. The slope just got a whole lot slicker, sort of like owl shit on a sycamore limb. We started with air, now we are sending troops. How in the hell is he going to get us out of this shit? U-G-L-Y
     
    shane0911, Aug 14, 2014
    #270
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