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Military What was done is being undone...Iraq

Discussion in 'Free Speech Alley' started by mancha, Jun 12, 2014.

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LaSalleAve when in doubt, mumble

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I liked Chris Christie until he purposely had thousands of tax paying citizens Easter Sunday (no I'm not religious but it's a day to be spent with family) completely ruined in a vendetta against someone who opposed him. Plus he is anti weed so fuck him.

LaSalleAve, Jun 30, 2014

#151
uscvball Founding Member

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And 300 more "troops" to Iraq.....shocking.

uscvball, Jun 30, 2014

#152
red55 curmudgeon Staff Member

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mctiger said: ↑

You haven't proven it didn't happen yet. I made an allegation - Network TV has a left-wing bias. I backed it up with a source - that's my proof. You may choose to challenge the source's motivation, but that doesn't mean they're wrong.
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No, but it damn sure suggests that it is wrong and since you cannot seem to substantiate it any further, reasonable people will dismiss it. It has been challenged and found lacking.

red55, Jul 1, 2014

#153
red55 curmudgeon Staff Member

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uscvball said: ↑

And back to Iraq/ISIS and establishing an Islamic state....

"Emboldened by a weakened Iraqi government that is struggling to stop their murderous advance, the extremists of the Islamic State in Iraq and Syria declared over the weekend that they have set up a caliphate spanning large areas of the two countries....the group said in the message Sunday, which CNN couldn't independently confirm, that its flag now flies from Aleppo province in northwestern Syria to Diyala province in eastern Iraq. It announced that it was changing its name to just the "Islamic State."

And the vaunted Iraqi forces? "Today Iraq special forces launched a counter-offensive, they lost one helicopter right off the bat and the other two went to the wrong location." Brilliant.

"As militants with the Islamic State of Iraq and Syria (ISIS) sweep across Syria and northern Iraq, they've drawn thousands of foreign fighters to aid their insurgency. And apart from the role those fighters have played in aggravating the already-bloody conflict, analysts say, they could also pose a big threat to global security and U.S. counterterrorism efforts in the years ahead.

ISIS "is not just a threat in Baghdad or even Syria. It's a real threat to the West, because it's able to recruit fighters, train them, send them out, and then possibly redeploy them back West," said CBS News Senior National Security Analyst Juan Zarate, a national security adviser under former President George W. Bush.

Officials estimate that 5,000 foreign nationals have flocked to Iraq and Syria to fight the governments there, bringing the total number of ISIS fighters to somewhere between 15,000 and 20,000. Of the 5,000 foreigners there, the FBI estimates that maybe 100 are Americans.

The concern is that the foreigners recruited by ISIS could become more radicalized after their time on the battlefield and return home to "attack their fellow citizens in the West," Zarate said Wednesday.

The fighters "turn in [their] passport, get paid for it, the passports then get reconfigured and sold to others heading back west," he said. "There's an entire infrastructure to getting people in and out, money in and out, and it's very easy then to have people hidden in that mix. The challenge then is: who's coming out to potentially attack [other] countries?"

Zarate also warned that ISIS' ability to control territory could give extremists a safe harbor to plan and execute terror attacks.

"ISIS...is demonstrating that the imaginings of a caliphate -- a physical space that erases the old borders, [Osama] bin Laden's dream - is actually possible," he said. "This is a group that's making it a reality."

Former CIA Director Michael Morell told "CBS This Morning" earlier this month that ISIS' first goal is "to set up that caliphate and, it's not just in Iraq and in Syria."

"Their second goal then is to use that as a safe haven to attack the United States," he warned.
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Guard against unwarranted hysteria about ISIS and their new "caliphate". First of all what have they got? A landlocked desert surrounded by hostile countries devoid of much oil and arable land. These were the parts of Syria and Iraq that were largely uninhabited. Without oil income and seaports, they have a economy that is based only on taxation of impoverished subjects and stealing from their neighbors who will be very displeased with them.

Now they have ordered, ordered mind you, that all Arabs must now drop their tribal and national allegiances and swear fealty to the new Caliph. So now they can't even count on the Sunni tribes to support them. The idea that Saudi Arabia, Egypt, Bahrain or any other arabs state is going to continue to support a group trying to destabilize their hold on government is ludicrous.

The Iragi Shia and the Kurds are holding their own. So is the Syrian government for that matter. The Islamic State will jihad itself to death in a land with scant resources in short order.

These guys are dreaming. They have so many local problems to overcome that they may never be able to mount an operation against the USA.

What "safe harbor" to plan and execute terror against the United States? If the mountains of distant Afghanistan and Pakistan are no shield from US military action, what harbor is there in the middle of the Levant? We have allies and bases all around them. They cannot simply operate like Al Qaeda once did in Afghanistan. It ain't . . . gonna . . . happen.

red55, Jul 1, 2014

#154
mctiger RIP, and thanks for the music Staff Member

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red55 said: ↑

No, but it damn sure suggests that it is wrong and since you cannot seem to substantiate it any further, reasonable people will dismiss it. It has been challenged and found lacking.
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To anyone predisposed to think it was wrong in the first place, sure. I'm sure many on this board will agree with you. Many more, such as myself, believe it to be correct. Our beliefs color our acceptance or rejection of facts. And I don't see why I should have to substantiate any further when you haven't debunked at all. I declare myself the winner, and since you have often said debate is a blood sport, I now await your ceremonially falling on your sword.

mctiger, Jul 1, 2014

#155
red55 curmudgeon Staff Member

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mctiger said: ↑

To anyone predisposed to think it was wrong in the first place, sure.
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If you mean people predisposed to consider evidence over hearsay, then yes.

mctiger said: ↑

I'm sure many on this board will agree with you. Many more, such as myself, believe it to be correct. Our beliefs color our acceptance or rejection of facts. And I don't see why I should have to substantiate any further when you haven't debunked at all. I declare myself the winner, and since you have often said debate is a blood sport, I now await your ceremonially falling on your sword.
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You may declare yourself French toast if you wish, but no one will be having you for breakfast.

red55, Jul 1, 2014

#156
mctiger RIP, and thanks for the music Staff Member

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red55 said: ↑

If you mean people predisposed to consider evidence over hearsay, then yes.
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You've presented no evidence.

red55 said: ↑

You may declare yourself French toast if you wish, but no one will be having you for breakfast.
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Not sure how to react to that.

mctiger, Jul 1, 2014

#157
Tiger Exile Long time lurker

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mctiger said: ↑

You haven't proven it didn't happen yet. I made an allegation - Network TV has a left-wing bias. I backed it up with a source - that's my proof. You may choose to challenge the source's motivation, but that doesn't mean they're wrong. What do you expect....a link to CBS News exposing their own bias?
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To your point: http://illinoisreview.typepad.com/i...onal-medias-cozy-ties-to-the-white-house.html

Tiger Exile, Jul 1, 2014

#158
red55 curmudgeon Staff Member

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mctiger said: ↑

You've presented no evidence.
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I didn't make the statement that was challenged.

red55, Jul 1, 2014

#159
mctiger RIP, and thanks for the music Staff Member

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red55 said: ↑

I didn't make the statement that was challenged.
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Again, I made a statement and provided 2 sources. You may reject the source, but you still haven't refuted the allegation. You also offer nothing to the contrary, other than your scorn for the source.

Give it up; you ain't convincing me, and I ain't convincing you.

mctiger, Jul 1, 2014

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