Military What was done is being undone...Iraq

Discussion in 'Free Speech Alley' started by mancha, Jun 12, 2014.

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  1. Rex_B

    Rex_B Geaux Time

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    Cheney needs to sit down and STFU.
     
    Rex_B, Jun 23, 2014
    #131
    uscvball likes this.
  2. red55

    red55 curmudgeon Staff Member

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    Even the Republicans are telling Cheney and Rove not to help. The last thing the GOP needs in an election year is to be advocating another expensive war in Iraq. Yet, they are waiting to see what Obama will do so that they can be against it. If Obama does the smart thing, then the Republicans will go stupid.
     
    red55, Jun 23, 2014
    #132
  3. uscvball

    uscvball Founding Member

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    Red, just because someone has a mic and camera doesn't make them informed or honest. Someone you've never heard of can still be bullseye correct.


    Does it matter? You are certainly entitled to an opinion. That doesn't make me misinformed.

    "Huge stockpiles of US armor, weapons, heavy artillery, mortars, armored
    vehicles, tanks, the entire main weapons depot and the main helicopter base,
    have been captured, mostly intact, by ISIS

    The largest oilfield in Iraq has also been captured by ISIS.

    No US airstrikes, and none are likely any time soon.

    Bumbling US State Department is providing zero support to contractors and
    other Americans still here.

    Water, ammunition, and other critical supplies are not being delivered to
    what few Iraqi troops there are who have not already ripped-off their
    uniforms and fled."

    From a contractor on the ground in Iraq.

    But you wouldn't know that, would you? I was always taught that if someone will lie about something, they will lie about anything. The government has clearly lied when it suited them. Who would accept a spouse, mate, friend, co-worker, who lied on the regular? How do YOU determine when the government is lying? It is a fact that our government tells us what they want us to know. When they want us to hate someone, they give us a face.

    I had a family member with an office in the White House. I know they lie. That's enough for me to question pretty much everything we do.

    In the frame of reference of what our government does in our name, how many Americans are aware of SAD and what they do? How about Sweet Tea? Other than being something to drink, how many Americans know about it?
     
    uscvball, Jun 23, 2014
    #133
  4. uscvball

    uscvball Founding Member

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    Cheney and Rove are sick individuals. I despise them as much as I do Brennan.
     
    uscvball, Jun 23, 2014
    #134
  5. red55

    red55 curmudgeon Staff Member

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    Or totally wrong, as I have indicated.

    No, I am just suggesting that.

    Why do you want to go to war for the Iraqis? The Shiites hate us. The Sunnis hate us. They hate each other. We're going to have to let them fight this out. They don't threaten us while engaged in fratricide and they weaken each other. If the winner decides to actually threaten the US, then we can deal with that effectively.

    This isn't true. Soldiers are being moved in to safeguard them. Meanwhile hundreds of diplomatic civilians and contractors are leaving Iraq in an orderly fashion. Be aware that there are zero US military contractors in Iraq. All contractors are working for the Iraqi government.

    Well, welcome to wartime reality. The Iraqi Army can't fight anybody if they aren't resupplied so the Iraqi government robs resources from their non-essential contractors, many of whom are leaving. Many Sunni troops in Anbar refused to fire on fellow Sunnis and deserted, but there are large number of Shiite soldiers still in position. Divisions of them. The Shiite area that ISIS is now threatening will offer them no support and the Shiite militias are reconstituting themselves. Those guys gave us a long hard fight.

    I do not have these trust issues. The Government doesn't lie, individuals lie. They get caught and revealed regularly. It is part of the checks and balances that makes the government effective. The "government" is too big to get away with as much institutional lying as you suggest. There is no motivation for a government to lie about everything.

    Of course a government will also have secrets. You must be pragmatic about this.

    Damn few. That is what being covert is all about.
     
    red55, Jun 24, 2014
    #135
  6. red55

    red55 curmudgeon Staff Member

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    You have learned much, Grasshoppa.

    Why do they remain such conservative icons when so clearly out of sync with todays politics?
     
    red55, Jun 24, 2014
    #136
  7. uscvball

    uscvball Founding Member

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    I didn't say I did. I just think the reality of that region requires some type of action to regain stability. If Baghdad falls to ISIS there are some consequences we may not be prepared for.

    You may say it isn't true but that came directly from a contractor currently on the ground in Iraq.

    The point was that ISIS isn't slowing or stopping or without resources, both physical and economical.

    The government is of, by, and for the people. 6 of one, half a dozen of the other. People within the government, in key positions, lie on the regular including the head honcho in Langley.

    There are secrets and there are lies. Do you honestly believe there were no SAD operators in that group of 300?

    I said on here once before that our GTK's will do what they do and allow other entities to take credit....I also said, ISIS leaders need to be removed. "Iraqi special forces killed the militant leader who led the attacks against the refinery and goes by the name of Abu Qutada, the agency said."

    "A spokesman for Iraq's counterterrorism service told CNN that two senior ISIS figures -- an Algerian militant named Abu Omar al-Baghdadi and Abu Hafsa, the self-styled governor of Tikrit -- were killed late Monday in airstrikes in Tikrit, the hometown of former Iraqi leader Saddam Hussein."

    Would that be the Iraqi Air Force that is primarily recon and transport? Or the one that is currently under going training from US forces and don't know how to effectively operate an F-16 yet? This has the US written all over it.
     
    uscvball, Jun 24, 2014
    #137
  8. red55

    red55 curmudgeon Staff Member

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    And consequences for taking action as well, perhaps far worse.

    Exactly my point. An Iraqi contractor should not be surprised to discover that he is not Iraq's highest priority during wartime. It was the risk he took when he signed a contract with the government of Iraq.

    In fact they have been slowed, the Iraq military is fighting them, and they are a long way from taking Baghdad.

    An intelligence chief whose job requires telling lies.

    I doubt it. That group is being very overt for obvious reasons. Our covert operators were already there.

    let them kill each other. Why take a side in a civil war in which both sides hate us?

    The Iraqis have plenty of missile-firing helicopters with which they operate effectively. They have been used against ISIS already and the Kurds have complained about them as well.
     
    red55, Jun 24, 2014
    #138
  9. LaSalleAve

    LaSalleAve when in doubt, mumble

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    LaSalleAve, Jun 24, 2014
    #139
  10. mctiger

    mctiger RIP, and thanks for the music Staff Member

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    Maybe not the best term to use, but there is clearly a left wing bias....these stats from O'Reilly, and you can accept them as correct or not. When Rep. Gov. Chris Christie was accused of the heinous crime of causing traffic jams on bridges in New Jersey, the networks devoted 112 minutes of airtime to the story in the first week. Yet the VA waiting list scandal went unmentioned by the Big 3 for almost 2 weeks, and the missing IRS email story got less the 3:30 minutes combined in the first week. That is media bias, period.
     
    mctiger, Jun 27, 2014
    #140
    shane0911, gyver, alfredeneuman and 1 other person like this.
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