What about Ukraine and Russia?

Discussion in 'Free Speech Alley' started by Winston1, Feb 13, 2022.

  1. APPTiger

    APPTiger still unable to post Geaux Tigers!

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    Putin and XI have met 3-4 times over the last year. Guarantee this was discussed and planned, XI and China green lighted it and it is a trail run for Taiwan. "Ukraine is part of Russia, it belongs to us" . Just substitute Taiwan and China. Russia and China both want to bring us down. Russia and China allied, just add Iran, South Korea, Pakistan into the mix with a reluctant European council and you have a potential recipe to end the United States as we know it.

    We have given up far too much technology and manufacturing capacity over the years. Taiwan and China now make 69% of the worlds semiconductors. Global Foundries bought IBM's chip business and accounts for 7% of the chip market and is the only US based producer. However, large parts of it's production is done in Singapore, Dresden, Germany, and Malta., South Korean Samsung is the other major market player with 18% of the market.
    And this is one marketplace.....

    And with the stroke of a pen, Biden turns us from a net energy exporter into begging opec for more production. Weakening our national security in the process. We could be well and truly screwed.
     
  2. Jmg

    Jmg Veteran Member

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    peace, and a long period of it. we forget, before modern times, the world was just a series of deadly and constant war.

    nato is a voluntary group that you join and your country immediately can relax knowing they will have peace. its maybe the greatest thing a country can do, ally themselves with the US and their power. its great. you are implying that NATO expanded in an aggressive manner. they didnt. people wanted to join, as they should have. especially the baltics, where they have tremendous economic groth and freedom and quality of life, for being free of soviet and then russian influence via the protection of nato.

    NATO expansion is not a threat to anyone. they are a defensive group.
     
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  3. Jmg

    Jmg Veteran Member

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    the difference is twofold

    1. we (USA) have a more explicit policy of intervention in taiwan
    2. only like 10% of taiwan would accept chinese rule. in many places in eatersn ukraine it is a majority that identify as russian. plus their lives dont change much with russian rule. in china they go from possibly the worlds most competent free democracy to far more controlling autocracy. at least russians can use the whole internet, which is huge. ukrainians are far more sympathetic to living under putin that taiwan is to red china. taiwan is hugely westernized.
     
  4. LSUpride123

    LSUpride123 PureBlood

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    When did Russia have grand plans to invade Europe?

    I mean, most of Russia's targets have ethnic ties dont they? Again, not saying their ideology is right, but its not like a blind NAZI conquering campaign here.
     
  5. Jmg

    Jmg Veteran Member

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    they would probably invade latvia tonight if not for nato. also, russia fights proxy wars all the time.

    granted, these places with unrest like georgia and transnistria etc are russian ethnic enclaves. but russia would be even more aggro if they could. serbia for example acts like assholes all the time, with russian support.

    its better to westernize like croatia than to not, like serbia. serbia is the bad guys. NATO is not aggressive.

    turkey are assholes and they counter my point but they should be kicked out of nato ASAP
     
  6. LSUpride123

    LSUpride123 PureBlood

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    NATO didnt do shit when Russia annexed Crimea and I dont think they will do a damn thing now. Thus, my reasons for my assertion. It might of been useful as you laid out once before, but since 2010 it dont see its use.
     
  7. Jmg

    Jmg Veteran Member

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    because there was no one to save, those are russian people, and crimea is not NATO. nato saved lots of people from genocide in bosnia from russian backed serbian war criminals.

    russia would expland slowly, populate places with russians, them move slowly again to expand to its USSR borders, if it could. thats why nato exists. and it is still needed.

    repeat, NATO is a defensive org only. thats good and rare.
     
  8. APPTiger

    APPTiger still unable to post Geaux Tigers!

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    Don't think it will matter, hope you're right. Also think the amount of willing Russian subjects in Ukraine is lower than most think. They have had a taste of life without it. Eastern Ukraine is definitely the highest concentration of Russian sympathizers.

    NATO is a defensive organization. Crimea is not a NATO member. Neither is Ukraine. Obama did nothing on Crimea, I expect his surrogate will do the same. Things will go to shit quickly if Putin attacks a NATO member.
     
  9. LSUpride123

    LSUpride123 PureBlood

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    I dont disagree NATO was founded on that. I just dont buy that is what it is today.

    Humans are still humans.
     
  10. Jmg

    Jmg Veteran Member

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    nato isnt defensive? worried norway is gonna take kaliningrad?
     
    Last edited: Feb 24, 2022
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