Only enough to complete nearly 70% of his passes his jr. year, and have the 2nd-best season in LSU QB history. I still LOL at people who say "what a difference Flynn made"....What exactly was the difference? 12-2 one year, 12-2 the next year....External factors led Flynn to the NCG even though the team lost to two unranked teams (including one at HOME in the last game of the season). I don't know for sure, but I'm guessing LSU is the only team to be in the NCG after dropping its final game at home to an unranked team. So can we please stop giving Flynn all this credit for "willing us" to a NCG? He got lucky, the team got lucky, and for that we should forever be grateful to Dave Wannstedt. At least with JR, we only lost to top 5 teams, on the road, one of which was the eventual national champion. Again, I ask, what exactly was the huge difference Flynn made? That we only lost 2 games? Oh wait, that's exactly what Russell did in both his seasons as a starter. (Waiting for the spin doctors to blame the defense and Brandon LaFell for everything, while also crediting Dwayne Bowe and Craig Davis for all of our success the prior year) Yes, we should've been better with Russell. We should've been better with Flynn too. We let games slip away both years. Only difference to speak of is that we got ridiculously fortunate one season and were given a chance at redemption.
So you can point out won-loss records and those are considered facts, but then if someone points out the disparity between the defenses in those two years and the vastly superior receiving corps Russell had it's "spin doctoring?" Way to completely negate your own argument. Was Russell effective? Yes. Was he a good collegiate quarterback? Yes. Was he the great? No. If you are an objective observer you would realize in the games where Russell played top notch defenses, he underperformed. He did not raise the level of his play nor of those around him. He was inconsistent and routinely inked out close win after close win because of his lack of consistency at the most important position on the football field. We could spent an entire quarter and a half middling about, then Russell could take us down the field in 3 plays to score in less than a minute. Feast or famine does not make for a great quarterback. Against Auburn he managed to get us a field goal. A whole three points. I don't know any great college quarterback who notched a whole three points on the road when a championship opportunity was on the line. That's not greatness. Then there was the abomination in the Swamp that year. We only managed 10 points, three of which came after the game had been decided. Yes, there were factors outside of JaMarcus' control, such as Doucet's fumbled kick return, Chevis' muffed punt, and the holding call that took a touchdown off the board. With that said, Russell had a fumble at the Gators one yard line, and he threw three interceptions on the day. I'm sorry, but on the road against stiff competition, you don't fumble a center exchange knocking on the enemy's door, and you throw three picks? Come on. I think two were off tipped passes, but it was that fumbled exchange that really killed the team. It's inexcusable. Basic football 101. You can't fumble that ball. You say what difference did Flynn make? He lucked into it? I'm sure that pass to Byrd against Auburn was luck, right? LSU's championship hopes were on the line and he came up money. Russell had a much stouter defensive unit supporting him. Here's the points allowed by game: 3, 3, 7L, 7, 17, 23L, 0, 6, 24, 14, 20, 26. LSU did not allow a team to score over 26 points, and yet they lost 2 games. In those 2 games they lost, LSU managed all of 13 points of offense. You're going to tell me that offense was led by a great quarterback? Look, Flynn was not a great college quarterback. He was good, which is all the LSU team needed him to be. Efficient and effective, Flynn played within himself and he was consistent. He did not have the tremendous highs JaMarcus did, but he also was not as absolutely dreadful as Russell could also be. The Tiger defense started 2007 extremely strong, but once Charles Alexander was lost to injury, the defense really started to show signs of wear. Then Dorsey got banged up and things got really ugly. Here's the point total allowed by LSU's defense in 2007: 0, 7, 0, 16, 9, 24, 43L, 24, 34, 10, 24, 50L. Okay, notice much of a difference there? LSU didn't allow an opponent over 26 points in 2006, yet that changed dramatically the following year. They allowed 3 teams over 30 points, two over 40, and one to reach the half-century mark. In the two losses which went to overtime, LSU's offense still managed 34 and 48 points. The offense certainly seemed to do its job despite being without Early Doucet much of the year. With Flynn, LSU's offense scored 482 points in their 12 regular season games, averaging 40 points a contest. The defense gave up 241 points over the regular season which comes out to 20 points surrendered on average. With Russell, LSU's offense scored 397 points over the 12 regular season games, averaging 33 points a contest. Defensively, LSU allowed 150 points which averages out to be 12.5 points given up a game. So with a less talented quarterback at the helm, LSU averaged 40 points a game while giving up 20 in 2007 with Matt Flynn. With the supremely talented and physically gifted Russell, LSU scored 33 a game while giving up under 13. All we had to do was score two touchdowns on average in 2006, yet we lost twice. The following year we had to score on average at least three touchdowns just to win. That's a significant increase, and yet the offense matched it -- they increased the scoring average a full seven points. The problem in 2006 was our offense in those losses. In 2007, however, the problem in our losses was the defense. That's the difference between a championship team and one that is not quite good enough on the whole. When healthy, in 2007 we were the best team in the country. We proved that against Virginia Tech and Ohio State. When healthy in 2006, we were still not able to beat Auburn nor Florida. We were good enough, more than talented enough, but our offense was inconsistent and that starts with the triggerman. We never had a signature win with JaMarcus Russell against a top flight opponent. During Russell's career at LSU against ranked opponents with arguably the most talented team in the country supporting him, Russell never led us to a dominating win. Ranked games with Russell as full-time starter: #15 @Arizona State, 35-31 Win #10 Tennessee, 30-27 Loss in OT #11 Florida, 21-17 Win #16 Auburn, 20-17 Win #4 @Alabama, 16-13 Win in OT #13 Georgia SECCG, 34-14 Loss #3 @Auburn, 7-3 Loss #5 @Florida, 23-10 Loss #8 @Tennessee, 28-24 Win #5 @Arkansas, 31-26 Win #11 Notre Dame Sugar Bowl, 41-14 Win Ranked games with Flynn as full-time starter: #9 Miami Peach Bowl, 40-3 Win #9 Virginia Tech, 48-7 Win #12 South Carolina, 28-16 Win #9 Florida, 28-24 Win #17 @Kentucky, 43-37 Loss in 3OT #18 Auburn, 30-24 Win #17 @Alabama, 41-34 Win #1 Ohio State NCG, 38-24 Win Now, Flynn played some of the Georgia SECCG once Russell got hurt so that's a tricky game to measure. Anyway, never did Russell author a signature win over a truly outstanding opponent as Flynn did in a dominating effort over Virginia Tech. That win is what ultimately vaulted us ahead of them into the BCSCG. You claim it was luck that Pitt beat WVU, and you're right, we were fortunate, but we also had the best resume of any team in the country that year. That was not by luck. With the injuries to our defense, we were very lucky to get into the title game, but once we got healthy and we were in, we showed that luck was no longer necessary. We won in convincing fashion. The only time we really outclassed a ranked opponent with JaMarcus leading the offensive attack was against a highly overrated Notre Dame team in the Sugar Bowl. I never felt confident we were going to really play up to our potential with Russell, and that clearly denies him the status of "great" in any fashion you wish to bestow it. Flynn was not a great quarterback, but he was a great ambassador for LSU as an institution of higher learning as well as athletically. Matt was the model of what perseverance can do for a young man who faces obstacles, but never quits because of them. He stayed and he battled and he ultimately won. He was as humble in victory as he was a truly admirable team player while he waited in the wings for a chance. In the end, Matt Flynn was a great football player for LSU. He represented everything one can ever hope for in a Tiger. Russell did not seem to do this while at LSU, and he certainly does not now no matter how many passing stats you quote.
So because you never "felt" LSU could play to their potential under Russell, it "clearly denies him the status of "great" in any fashion you wish to bestow it."? WTF are you even trying to say here? Is there a fact to support your feelings? Because there are plenty of statistical facts to support JR's time @ LSU. You can keep trying to parse them and attribute them to every other player on the '06 team but it looks like just what it is - petty. Russell was an honor student. But people attribute speaking skills with intelligence. How ironic that so many rivals think the same thing about our coach. You have some examples of JR not being humble at LSU? Again I would love an example other than your "feelings". JR did not do this while he was at LSU? You have some empirical evidence of this, or are we falling back on your "feelings" again? Absolutely hilarious how you try to belittle his accomplishments here because he failed at the next level. It's quite transparent. And yes Russell did win a QB award his Junior year. It's called the Manning award. Perhaps you have heard of it? But of course, it's only because he had Bowe, Davis and Doucet. What a phucking joke. Season Player School 2004 Matt Leinart Southern California 2005 Vince Young Texas 2006 JaMarcus Russell LSU 2007 Matt Ryan Boston College 2008 Tim Tebow Florida 2009 Colt McCoy Texas
How was JaMarcus a great college quarterback? Other than stats and a good won-loss record which is a team accomplishment, what did JaMarcus do to make him great? We made it to one SECCG under him, and we lost mightily. We did finish in the top 5 twice with him, which is an awesome accomplishment, but how does that make him great? He was horribly inconsistent as a passer. He'd blow hot and cold and the team's performance often reflected that. We had far too much talent on offense to constantly have to make comeback attempts for victories. This was a staple with Russell. He was very good at pulling things out, no question, but he often made it hard on himself. I still contend any quarterback that can justifiably be labeled great doesn't score a whopping 3 and 10 points on the road with everything on the line, but perhaps you throw around the term great more often than I do.. I'm sorry, dude, but I never once said Russell wasn't smart or mentioned how he talks. I honestly have no idea why you even said this. Where did I say Russell wasn't humble? You're seemingly putting words in my mouth, because I never once said he was not humble. I don't think he would have ridden the bench for four years like Flynn did, but not many people would do that. Not sure that has anything to do with humility though. First of all, I recalled the Mannings gave JaMarcus the award and edited my post fairly soon after I made it. You're absolutely right about that. He did win it. Kudos to him. I'm not belittling Russell's accomplishments so much as critiquing them because of the label of great. People use that term way too often. I simply do not believe he was a "great" college quarterback. This is obviously my opinion, and I endeavor to support my opinion with as much evidence as I can that supports my viewpoint. You're entitled to see my views and disagree with them as you clearly have, but I feel that I have explained myself very well, and shown why I hold the stance that I do. In the end, obviously, I'm not more right than anyone else is about JaMarcus. You obviously feel he was great. I did not then nor do I now. If you'd like I can go dig up some of my posts on another forum where I was critical of his play while enrolled at LSU. My view of Russell has not been tainted by his performance in the pros -- it only affirmed what I already expected. He would not be a good pro quarterback, but ultimately I felt he did not take LSU where he could have. I do not believe he ever got the most out of his talents. You can agree or disagree, which is fine, that's what makes these forums enjoyable. People do not always share the same viewpoint. However, my feelings are no less justified than your own... :thumb:
Man, Brian, you had a good post going, then you had to sully it with all this "ambassador for LSU" mumbo jumbo that has nothing to do with football. But let's address the football-related stuff real quick, as all the rest is completely ancillary to the game, and entirely subjective. Again, I'll ask for anyone who wants to answer: If JaMarcus was sooooo inconsistent, why is he the most accurate QB in school history? If he wasn't a capable enough leader, why is he the only Tiger to lead us to back to back 10 win seasons? Sure, we lost two games his junior year, big f*cking deal. He was 25-4 as a starter. 25-4. Feel free to nitpick two of his "worst" games, I'll focus on the 25 times he led us to victory out of 29. If that's not getting it done, I don't know what it is. You can repeat the same things over and over if you want, I get it, we scored 3 points against Auburn, it was a debacle, blah blah blah. Of course we should have scored more points against Auburn, nobody denies this. But the notion that Russell played poorly that day is frankly, insane. I mean, he only completed 20 of 35 for 269 yards and threw 0 interceptions...What more could he have done? (I know, I know, get us into the end zone, you said that 20 times already.) We also scored 3 points that day because we couldn't run the ball for dick (1.8 ypc! 1.8!) and got screwed by two drive-killing calls: The non-PI call and the overturned catch Hester had which would've converted a 4th and 1. But I'm sure that's Russell's fault too, right? He was just too damn flashy out there! Completing passes and getting us first downs, the nerve of that guy! What a hot-shot! That humble kid Flynn would've gone out there and out-humbled them! That's what he'd do! He'd get us into the end zone with his gigantic brain and unparalleled humilty! His grittiness would get it done! (Quick note- Flynn's no Rhodes scholar, based on first-hand accounts from former teammates, and from what a mutual female friend tells me, he is far from a gentleman either) But back to football: On behalf of Russell, I apologize to you, and all of the disappointed Tiger faithful, for us not going undefeated like you expected us to. If only he had been more "heady" out there, and been more of an ambassador, well, we'd have won every damn game! And again, not that this is a Russell v. Flynn thing, because it really shouldn't be, it's possible to like them both, but you people are really starting to reach by calling the 2nd best statistical season an LSU QB has ever had "inconsistent" just because we lost a game you feel we should've won, especially a game that he played pretty damn well in. Sure, scoring 3 points is a disappointment, we should've beaten those guys. But how the hell are you supposed to score on the road with no running game? Just curious, since speculation in the face of facts runs so rampant in this thread, how many points do you think we would score with Flynn at the helm on the road vs. a top-10 Auburn team when our team ran for 56 (edit- net rushing was only 42) total yards? I'd love to see Flynn lead us to points that day with the mystical Jedi mind-power you've somehow attributed him with. I'll hang up and listen. This argument is going nowhere, other than widening the divide between those with realistic expectations and a solid grasp of reality and those without.
Okay, everytime I have ever seen Flynn interviewed or heard him speak he said all the right things, did all the right things, and he represented the school well. I'm not saying he's a rocket scientist and I am not demeaning JaMarcus' intelligence in any way with that comment. I don't see why if I point out a positive of one player it's immediately considered that I feel the other guy was the exact opposite. If I say Flynn was a heady quarterback some conclude that I'm saying Russell is dumb. No, I'm not, I am merely pointing out that Flynn seemed a savvy quarterback. He seemed diligent in his duties. You don't pull off that fake field goal behind the back toss to Colt David without a lot of practice and discipline. That doesn't mean Russell was horrible at such things, just that it was a strength of Matt Flynn's. Now, we'll stray from the debate of whether JaMarcus is a "great" college quarterback for a second and discuss something. Do I feel Russell has represented LSU well after graduation? Well, no, of course not. Troy Smith even called him out for his lack of loyalty to LSU on national television. That's pretty bad. That doesn't mean JaMarcus is a bad guy, but he's not exactly a good representative for the school. He's been lazy and doesn't care about his professional career constantly coming in overweight. That all hurts his image, and the Alabama bling can't help but paint a picture of a guy who probably doesn't have his priorities in line. He can rep Alabama all he wants, but he's got ridiculously garish jewelry made while he watches his career and his reputation slide down the drain. If you want to suggest that's a good representative for LSU as a school and a football program then I do not know what to tell you. I had no problems with how JaMarcus handled himself at LSU, because by all accounts he seemed to be a good kid. Now, let's journey back to Russell's tenure at LSU and his status as great amongst some fans. I'm not going to begrudge you if you feel JaMarcus was a great college quarterback. However, during his junior season Russell slimmed down and started running the ball and was pretty effective a few times. Why do you think that is? He wanted to show to pro scouts he could be more than just a statue back there. The team could have used a little more of him doing that during his entire tenure with the team, but that didn't happen. Call me a cynic if you want to, but he got paid and he got lazy. He got in shape in order to get paid. He was probably lazy before then, too. That's just how people are. JaMarcus clearly got by in college off of his incredible physical abilities. Had he actually honed his craft during his four years with LSU, then we'd have probably seen an even better quarterback. A great quarterback. Look, was it JaMarcus fault that we lost to Auburn? No, I won't say that, but he did cost us a shot at a field goal before halftime. We lost by four. That changes the complexion of a game. You can't discount the enormous center-exchange fumble against Florida. I don't know how else to say it, but these are plays you should know to make in high school let alone four years in at LSU. Let alone on the road with everything on the line. He didn't come through. I won't discount those "couple of bad games" because in college football every single game counts. JaMarcus amassed lots of wonderful stats, an absolutely awesome won-loss record, and he left LSU a very rich man. LSU did as much for JaMarcus Russell as he did for it, I'd even argue LSU did more for him given that we won a championship after he left and he got a huge signing bonus and quit caring about football. He didn't seem intent on living up to his contract. It's a damn shame, really, but that's been his story all along. Tons of potential, most of it unrealized. I firmly believe JaMarcus could have been a great college quarterback. One of the greatest ever had he had the drive of a Tiger Woods, a Drew Brees, or a Jerry Rice. He didn't at LSU nor did he after his playing days. He had a high completion percentage, no doubt, as we had some pretty talented guys catching the ball and he was a good passer. JaMarcus has an amazing arm and a good delivery. He was a very good passer, arguably the best there can be when he was dialed in. The problem was he wasn't always "on." When he wasn't dialed in, the LSU offense became stagnant and we were mired in mud. Lots of movement, but no progress. I do not believe Flynn was a more talented quarterback than Russell. I do not believe Matt Flynn should have ever started over JaMarcus had JaMarcus fully applied himself, but Russell never did and Flynn clearly was applying himself all along. It took Flynn four years to hone his reasonable athletic skills into being a pretty good college quarterback. Nothing more nor less. Russell only got into really good shape for one season, and never seemed to truly apply himself. There's nothing else that explains the lulls we would experience on offense for a quarter, a half, sometimes less and sometimes longer. No question JaMarcus could sometimes flip that switch, turn it on, and he'd pull out the win for us. Look at Alabama, Ole Miss, Arizona State, and the list goes on.. I will always come back to this point. In 2006, we lost 2 games because our offense was incapable of scoring against two top teams. In 2007, we lost 2 games because our defense could not keep the other team out of the endzone. The offense is led by one guy -- the quarterback. It all rests on his shoulders for better or worse. That's the nature of the position. Russell has to bear the burden of that considering he cashed a lot of checks because of it. Flynn's offense didn't struggle to score points despite receiver problems. We had a problem on defense. Once we got healthy, we won a championship. So two season, two different quarterbacks, one guy's offense was the critical downfall for the team and the other guy's defense was what cost us. I feel Matt Flynn was a good enough quarterback, not close to great, who led us to a great season due to a lot of fortunate bounces. I don't consider Russell a great college quarterback, though I feel with his records and his stats he had a damn strong career. :milesmic:
So because he had phenomenal stats, top 2-5 in every category kept at LSU, he was not a great QB because he did not win the SECC? And we "lost mightily", which of course is all attributed to him? Not the defense, not the wr's, not the rb's, not the special teams, not the coaches, and certainly not the Georgia Bulldogs, but it falls all at his feet? So Russell has a bad game vs the eventual SEC champ(as a redshirt sophmore) and he blows. Flynn has a bad game vs an unranked Arkansas team(as a 5th yr senior) but he would have been clearly superior the yr before. What did Flynn do to make him better? You apply your stats to Flynn and penalize JR for the same things. You give Flynn a pass on his mistakes and downgrade JR for them. Again, it's transparent. That is an unmitigated, and unsupported lie. He is actually: Ranked second all-time at LSU in career completion percentage (61.9) Are you talking about Russell or the "cardiac cats" of '07? Florida 28-24 - losing until the last minutes, five 4th down plays in that game, and two on that last drive to a team that would finish 9-4(losing to Michigan??)? Auburn 30-24 - losing until the last seconds, Flynn hikes the ball with 9 secs instead of 15 Alabama 41-34 - losing until the last minutes, and needed a bama fumble to win Kentucky 37-43 - oops we lost to that powerhouse Arkansas 48-50 - oops we lost that one too when Flynnn threw an interception in the endzone to end the game SECCG - oops, Perilloux played and won the game, Flynn did not see the field NCG - Flynn gets a month off to recover from his shoulder injury and has blow out victory in bowl game, just like JR the yr before Yeah, I am seeing how this was endemic to Russell, and not Flynn. That moniker of "cardiac cats", which we were dubbed in 2007, must have just been an homage to the only QB that has come from behind victories. :insane: No, I just don't cherry pick 1-2 games and determine anyone's worth based on that. I look at the body of work, and JR's is unquestionably great. Flynn had the good fortune of watching Pitt win, and his backup win a SECCG. I love Flynn and think he was a very good QB, but that doesn't make him better than JR. Just incredibly fortunate. As to JR not scoring more points in those two games, there was plenty of grumbling about the play calling, not execution by the QB. You saw JR make one real mistake towards the end of the Auburn game and now want to lay the offensive woes all at his feet. I seem to recall plenty of calls for Fisher's head and monday morning Qb's blasted the gameplan. Hey at least Auburn was a good team and highly ranked. What was Flynn's excuse vs powerhouse Kentucky or Arkansas? Simple answer is Flynn does not need an excuse and should not be judged so narrowly. Neither should JR who has a much deeper resume'. Because you said Flynn was a great ambassador for higher education while at LSU, amongst many other things. And followed it up with this: Again, you said this about Flynn. And this about Russell: If you can't keep track of what you typed, that's a personal issue. I have directly quoted you. Parse this. Please. :insane: The first honest thing you have posted. He also won: 1)First-team All-SEC by both the AP and the SEC Coaches. Pretty sure it was for his position @ QB. 2)Joined Tommy Hodson (1987) as the only quarterbacks in LSU history to be named First-Team All-SEC by the AP and the SEC Coaches in the same season. Well that's just gotta be a mistake. How could all those writers and coaches miss what you now see so clearly? Really? Is that what this means? Even though you would like them to, stats do not lie. Not for JR, and not for Flynn. Let me know when you get some. Priceless. You can also now try to crawfish and say it's not about comparing Flynn and Russell but you have done so repeatedly in this thread. Just as many here have definitively stated that Flynn would have won us another NC in '06. Good luck with that. :rofl:
When did I ever say Flynn would have won us a National Championship in 2006? Or say that Flynn would have performed better than Russell? We can never know, and while I felt Flynn would have been a better fit for us during those years I won't sit here and pretend that he would have done better than Russell. It is impossible to predict. He may have done worse. That's certainly as plausible as anything. I've never said Flynn was as good as JaMarcus, either, though you clearly think I have. Sometimes the less talented guy can be a better fit for a team, which has happened plenty of times in sports. That is my opinion, and I'm happy to stick to it. I'm sorry, so his completion percentage equates to me being a liar? I recall many LSU games where we were not moving the ball until late and we eeked out wins. Russell would blow hot and cold as a passer. When he was on he was really on. When he wasn't he really wasn't. That's analysis of a player beyond just his stat line. Don't forget he had some pretty phenomenal players catching passes for him. I'm sorry, are you not reading the SCORES of those games? The fact that every single one of them had LSU scoring 28+ is apparently lost on you.. Maybe just maybe the defense was a large part of why we were in those harrowing late-game situations? I guess you don't actually read my posts in their entirety as I covered the defensive breakdown. You seem enamored with cherry picking the comments you feel you can tear apart and ignore the rest. *shakes head* I'm not cherry picking anything. I've pointed out more than just two games, but you seem intent on ignoring that and only isolating certain things I say. I wonder if you're actually even reading what I've said. When have I ever said he was better than JR? I *never* have. Again, you're making things up that I never stated. Stop it. Flynn was fortunate. No question. He got to go to LSU, get a degree, and win a championship. The play-calling under Jimbo was often criticized, but then Gary Crowton hasn't exactly been lighting it up now has he? I'm not a huge fan of either. Russell blew a field goal opportunity at half time. You didn't even get the time of the game right. JaMarcus also fumbled the ball away on the Florida goal line and threw three picks, but I forgot.. I only pick out one thing and harp on it incessantly. *shakes head* Again, not a fan of Jimbo's. There's no shame in losing at Auburn or at Florida. I'm NOT saying JaMarcus was anything but a VERY GOOD college quarterback. I do not feel he is GREAT. You seem to think I feel he's awful. I don't. He was REALLY GOOD. Well, considering we scored 48 against Auburn and 37 against Kentucky I don't think Flynn needs an excuse. Let's not forget Flynn played the majority of the year without Early Doucet AND he had a bum ankle. We lost though, fair and square. In triple overtime, we finally wilted completely on defense against Woodson and McFadden. If you feel the loss falls on Flynn for his performances in those games then you're entitled to your opinion. I'd like to hear what football fundamentals he blew in those contests that cost us crucial opportunities though.. Russell does have a deeper resume. He played longer. Not sure what your point was. Flynn's resume is arguably equal, though, despite the relatively short sample size. Each had a wonderful career at LSU and accomplished great things, just in different ways. There's clearly some confusion here and I obviously did not properly convey my points. Here's my original quote: So, I'm sitting here putting a conclusion together on my central argument of Russell never had a signature win, yet Flynn helped dominate two outstanding programs in Miami and Virginia Tech. The argument is Russell is a great quarterback despite that. My argument is that JR's just damn good. My rebuttal regarding Flynn is that while he's not a great quarterback, he was great at everything else. He was a role model for being a team player. Gutted it out on the team for four years unsure if he'd ever get his chance, etc. We all know the story. Now, where the problem is and this is MY fault completely is that I followed that up with saying Russell did not do this while at LSU. I did not mean to infer that JaMarcus was not humble and a team player while at LSU. I never thought he wasn't a team player. I have no reason to think he didn't put forth a good effort. If I felt Russell wasn't humble, trust me, I'll flat out say it. What I was referring to and it was my mistake to leave it open-ended was about JaMarcus not ever having a signature or career-defining moment where he just lays waste to the opposition. Rohan and Josh had it against Alabama. Herb Tyler against Florida. Flynn and company against Miami and Virginia Tech and so on.. Now, I apologize for not making myself clear, but if I want to say something I promise you I'll say it and in elaborate fashion. I was just wrapping up my conclusion too hastily. So now I am dishonest? Wow, you know, I used to enjoy your posts but you have a really derogatory tone to your posts and I'm not really sure I want to even engage in a further debate with you. There's no need to be so hostile as you have been. And I will repeat again: I have never said JaMarcus was a bad quarterback. Ever. All I have said is he is not GREAT. Why is this so difficult for you to understand? You can be All-SEC and not great. I'm pretty sure Great, as I have clearly stated, to me is a very big deal. I think Drew Brees is a great quarterback. I think Matt Ryan and Aaron Rodgers are really good quarterbacks. I think Tebow was great. Wuerffel was great. They're all-time greats. Great is so cavalierly thrown around nowadays it's saddening. John Parker Wilson holds most of Alabama's significant passing records, but is anyone going to say he's great? Really? DJ Shockley was first team All-SEC the year before.. was he great, too? You keep talking about lies and honesty, and I'm pretty tired of your petty comments and accusations. I've given my OPINION and you've attacked me. I don't know what your problem is, but I mostly lurk here and it is people like you that make me regret bothering to discuss sports. Not because I am not capable, but because you remove the fun out of a debate. QBLuke and I had no problems with our opinions being different, I respect his thoughts and the manner he conducts himself. You I have no respect for. Yeah, AGAIN you make statements that I never made. I never said Flynn would have performed better nor won us a championship in 2006. Back then I wanted Flynn to play in 2006, but guess what? The backup is the most popular player on the team. Doesn't mean he would have acquitted himself any better than JaMarcus, but I would have liked to see him get a chance to. You have yet to describe to me why JaMarcus is great other than some accolades and statistics. I'm sorry, but a great player to me has to have a great moment. There were some thrilling moments with JaMarcus, and I'll always remember fondle the AZ State comeback because I was watching it in Texas as Katrina uprooted my family.. it was a wonderful win. There was also the comeback against Alabama and the win in OT. Those were awesome plays, and maybe in time I'll reconsider and place Russell among the greats, but I don't right now. Anyway, I'm done conversing with you. Have a nice day.
