Trent Johnson ... time to go???

It is not that he is completely opposed to it, its that he can't afford to go after that type of player now. You have to get some program guys in to establish some consistency. Brady went after the big names, and we'd be good when they were here, but then back to terrible after. See the drop from 2000 sweet sixteen to the 2001 horror or the 2006 Final Four to the 2007 losing season.

Brady's most consistent years were when we had a solid group of guys like Torris Bright, Ronald Dupree, and Collis Temple III. Not the years after we were trying to rebound from the early loss of a lottery pick.

 

Tap is a troll. You can't expect him to know or even care if lsu-i-like is a Miles basher or not.

 

This coming from the guy with an agenda all the time.:wave: J/K

 

sweet, why don't we start talking about van chancellor and paul manaeri in this thread too....

 

i was just joking man..... it's all good....

 

You know that's right!

^psych (TV show) reference

 

If you would have more posts like this instead of being The Agenda Police, then maybe I wouldn't call you a troll.

There are positives and negatives to each philosophy. Trent's philosophy can work. We need to have good players with experience. Right now our good players are freshman and Trent's philosphy can't work under these circumstances. Granted, I don't think he's done a very good job coaching this year. We are limited by experience, but we should be better than we are right now. Our horrible play is a combination of a very young team that is not being coached very well.

 

the reason LSU sucks ... they take 1 shot inside the lane in the first half against Rice. yes, shooting was hot, but bottom line you have to be able to get to the basket. LSU doens't do that and that is purely coaching. until that changes, i have no confidence that even if we had Duke's talent we would be doing much better.

 

You asked, so I'll answer. First, though, if it seemed as though I "bashed" Brady, I have to (like others on this thread) set the record straight. As I said, I am a LSU basketball fan, and generally an optimistic one. I supported Brady through thick and thin through 2006's final four run, and frankly was frustrated with LSU "fans" who seemed to want his head throughout that time, despite some key upsets, and tourney runs. Now, he never could "quite" get over that hump to basketball consistency (i.e., making the NCAA tourney consistently), but he did make some nice runs, largely though on the backs of Stromile Swift during his Sweet 16 run, and then the era of Bass, Davis, T. Mitchell and Thomas. You can "debate" whether these folks were recruited by Brady or Butch Pierre or Collis Temple, a noted LSU insider. But, results were results. Brady thus is often "perceived" as a good recruiter. Frankly, his MO was to recruit athletes, long and rangy and converting those athletes into an aggressive athletic defensive minded team. You should note that every one of Brady's "big" recruits that panned out were from close proximity to LSU.

After the final four run, something changed. Brady went "national" in his recruiting tact, and frankly in 2006-7 on the heels of a final four, Brady whiffed. He was in the running to land Scottie Reynolds (who was then a four year player at Villanova) and a big man, 6'9" guy whose name escapes me at the moment, who ended up going to Kansas (Darrell Arthur, I think). So, there are your "big fish" that Brady were going after. Not getting either of those guys, there was little "back up plan" (I think the lesson he'd learn from Trent is land those "good to very good" players that fit your system). In the years following, Brady relied heavily on Davis, Tas' and Temple, with varying, but degrading success. In that time following, look back at which recruits he was then banking his future on. Magnum Rolle, Regis Koundjia, and then Anthony Randolph and then, Marcus Thornton. There were also other relatively highly rated guys (i.e., top 150 kids like Storm Warren, Delwan Graham) and other kids that were no where on the "ranked" scales (e.g., Dennis Harris, Garrett Green, Alex Farrer). So, I'd make the case frankly that what cost Brady his job was his recruiting, which was no where close to landing those "top kids" you are talking about, but more importantly, not enough good consistent recruiting + player development. In addition, you have a coach that was not media friendly, administration friendly, and abrasive to players and fans (particularly, his attrition rate ran off even the "medium to good" players, like Ross Neltner, Magnum Rolle, Regis Koundjia and others). Do I think he was a reasonably good coach? Yes, probably he was. But, on the overall balance, was he running the ship right in that 2006-8 time frame? Probably not and that was when I supported him leaving--his inability to build on a final four run, and recruiting players that stayed at LSU.

Now, you ask why this affected 2009? Well, contrary to what you must believe (and others on this board), programs generally do not recruit "overnight". Again, when you see Davis leave for the pros, aside from Anthony Randolph (who also clearly WENT to LSU b/c of Butch Pierre and the "one and done" leap to the NBA) and Marcus Thornton (I guess you can also throw J'Mison Morgan in there... a kid that then went to UCLA, couldn't play and now has transferred to Baylor), there wasn't much in the works in terms of recruiting beyond that. I believe some of the luster had worn off Brady, and do I think he would have recruited someone else in 2008 if given the chance? Likely no (although, of course this is speculation). Interestingly NO recruit has necessarily cited John Brady as a reason for coming to LSU--he was never regarded for his coaching abilities, rather more for demanding a lot out of his players.

Do I think, assuming Butch was also still here, that Brady would have lost 20 games? I'd actually say that they'd probably be pretty bad as well (I think the more interesting question is whether Brady/Butch would have won the SEC championship in 2008, with essentially the same team that he had the year before, plus J'Mison Morgan? I'd argue no.). In 2008, Brady might have gone after one Juco, one marginal player, and we might have had a big man in Morgan playing for LSU? He relied mostly on Butch Pierre, Nikita Johnson and Chad Dollar to recruit for him (when they left, his recruiting left--i.e., see Arkansas State). You could probably give him + or - 3 games. But, at the same time, I don't think he would have signed Stringer, Turner or Derenbecker (or Isaac). He wouldn't be getting serious looks from kids like Ricardo Gathers or Javon Felix.

In short, we often forget that running the program is more than just landing one and done players, but also bringing other elements to the table including solid recruits that stay in your system.

As for Trent's recruiting "philosophy" folks are getting too hung up on these "one and done" kinds of players. Folks are acting like one or two of these guys would clearly make or break a season, and I don't think that's the case. Case in point, the team with Randolph. Further, kids like Tyrus Thomas, Ronald Dupree, Darrell Mitchell were not one and dones. So, we make too much of Trent recruiting 4 year guys and Brady or someone else recruiting 1 or 2 year players. Frankly, if you look at who historically gets farther in the post season, look to teams like Kansas, Michigan St, Duke, or teams like Butler or Gonzaga. These teams are mostly Juniors and Seniors.

I think Trent had to clearly recruit some players who are smart, good citizens, and those who would help LSU's basketball team back on the right APR path. He did that. Now, he's signed a kid like Johnny O'Bryant, a potential NBA talent, who played on the USA basketball U17 team, and a regarded top 20 or 40 recruit. There's your proof that he's doing something right on the recruiting front. I continue to think that his recruiting in 2012 will be the key to whether we have a more "consistent" program with Trent vs Brady. A class of Gathers, a solid point, such as Felix, and another impact 4+ star guy would be very nice, and another potential top 20 class.

Whether the wins would have been +3 or 4 or 5 with Brady, I don't think is the right question. It's has Trent overall corrected some of the things that the LSU Athletic Department felt were wrong with this program? I think yes, generally. The only unfortunate thing was perhaps Trent's early signings, and the results so far this year on the court. He's obviously got to fix how his team is playing sooner rather than later.

 

I saw very little in the Rice game, hence the multiple 'damns'. But what I'm hanging my very little pompoms on is that Trent Johnson has had success before at multiple programs with multiple players. I appreciate that he is recruiting solid players and I am hopeful that it will pay off in the future.

I've criticized the guy, but it doesn't mean I can't find any positives. The loss to Rice (and the way we lost to Rice) has amped up my criticism. BTW, who peepeed in your cheerios?

I think it's borderline batturd insane how down on Coach Johnson you are, as if there are no positives. I can understand how you may be reacting to all the Miles bashing, but LSU basketball ≠ LSU football. If you feel so strongly that Johnson is not the answer, I can almost relate considering my feelings on Miles. I just feel like it is too early to conclude that Johnson is not the answer. There is no excuse for the Rice game, I think we're together on that.

I feel like I am fairly critical and patient with Miles and Johnson.

I think Miles has some obvious shortcomings and strong-suits, but IF Miles cans Crowton I'll slack off big time on the Miles criticism. If our offense still struggles I'll probably have little for Miles, but if Miles DOESN'T can Crowton and our offense is pathetic again next year, I'll have even less.

I am very open to considering that maybe our OC/QB coach is a big reason we are struggling to take this thing to the next level. Not that we aren't playing at a relatively high level, I just think we are capable of more on offense than we've gotten. If our offense was better, we'd be a bad mofo, and really is there any reason we shouldn't be? I think even the more gushing Miles supporters can admit that a 90+ offense is not where LSU should be.